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The oil companies are putting out propaganda to make you believe that climate change can't be stopped. The message has changed as follows: 1) Climate change is

by sjducb 3y ago

The oil companies are putting out propaganda to make you believe that climate change can't be stopped. The message has changed as follows: 1) Climate change isn't happening 2) Climate change is happening, but we didn't cause it 3) Climate change is happening, we caused it, but it can't be stopped. If you believe any of the above statements then you will not get in the way of oil companies profits. That is the intended goal. The reality is that there's loads you can do at both the personal and public policy level. Don't believe the lies, climate change can be mitigated.

throwaway5959 3y ago
Climate change can be stopped but won’t be. Whether or not it can be is irrelevant to what actually happens, which is to say, it’s going to be a disaster.
- Spivak 3y ago
  That is isomorphic to #3 but with the defeatism pointed at people instead of the environment itself.
  - stubish 3y ago
    And when there is just one actor (us), "won't" is just a subset of "can't". As in "we can't do it, because we won't do it".
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
machina_ex_deus 3y ago
30% of emissions are from China. Oil companies real motivation was to manufacture scarcity, not produce as much oil as they can. Oil companies only have good margins when there's artificial scarcity, from geopolitical turmoil, from climate change dumb policies. It is taken for granted that oil companies lose from the climate change agenda - but when you look at the actions, they don't lose, they win. If the climate change agenda didn't stop their competition, if geological turmoil in the middle east and Venezuela didn't reduce the oil supply, oil would be pretty cheap. The U.S. got oil independence under Trump, but then the climate change agenda under Biden rolled it back and the oil prices soared. If oil prices are higher when climate agenda and policies are implemented, it seems like we've got it backwards. We also have it backwards regarding our control of climate change. China has 30% of global emissions. The same China that stopped it's economy for COVID. If they believed climate change is a risk to them, they would do something. But China hardly cares. Maybe, China doesn't see it as a risk. If China isn't going to be serious about it, the only rational decisions are either that it's inevitable and out of our control or that it's not that bad. There's no future where the west miraculously turns the ship around by itself out of a disaster that's 30% out of its control. That's the real lie.
revelio 3y ago
No they aren't. You've made a huge and nonsensical assertion here without any evidence at all, then said "don't believe the lies"!
- sjducb 3y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/18/the-forgotten-oil-ads-that-told-us-climate-change-was-nothing https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/18/the-forg... Graphic history of the ads they run, showing a change in message over the last 60 years.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - revelio 3y ago
    The last ads aren't saying climate change can't be stopped, they're saying that there's no viable way to replace oil and gas completely. Which is true. But The Guardian is a trash filled propaganda rag and says: "In contradiction to the science of stopping global heating, big oil asserts that fossil fuels will be essential for the foreseeable future." which is stupid. There isn't even such a thing as the "science of stopping global heating", that's something the Guardian made up. People (not just "big oil") are pointing out the blatantly obvious with this statement, even greens agree with that which is why so many talk about ideas like geo-engineering. As for their earlier ads, they are stating things that were and still are true. Fanatics have created a culture in which people are punished for pointing these things out but climatologists did in fact claim during the 60s and 70s there would be a new ice age, for example, and they still don't understand the physics of the climate by their own admission hence the hot model problem.

by sjducb 3y ago

throwaway5959 3y ago

Climate change can be stopped but won’t be. Whether or not it can be is irrelevant to what actually happens, which is to say, it’s going to be a disaster.

Spivak 3y ago
That is isomorphic to #3 but with the defeatism pointed at people instead of the environment itself.
- stubish 3y ago
  And when there is just one actor (us), "won't" is just a subset of "can't". As in "we can't do it, because we won't do it".
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

machina_ex_deus 3y ago

30% of emissions are from China. Oil companies real motivation was to manufacture scarcity, not produce as much oil as they can. Oil companies only have good margins when there's artificial scarcity, from geopolitical turmoil, from climate change dumb policies. It is taken for granted that oil companies lose from the climate change agenda - but when you look at the actions, they don't lose, they win. If the climate change agenda didn't stop their competition, if geological turmoil in the middle east and Venezuela didn't reduce the oil supply, oil would be pretty cheap. The U.S. got oil independence under Trump, but then the climate change agenda under Biden rolled it back and the oil prices soared. If oil prices are higher when climate agenda and policies are implemented, it seems like we've got it backwards. We also have it backwards regarding our control of climate change. China has 30% of global emissions. The same China that stopped it's economy for COVID. If they believed climate change is a risk to them, they would do something. But China hardly cares. Maybe, China doesn't see it as a risk. If China isn't going to be serious about it, the only rational decisions are either that it's inevitable and out of our control or that it's not that bad. There's no future where the west miraculously turns the ship around by itself out of a disaster that's 30% out of its control. That's the real lie.

revelio 3y ago

No they aren't. You've made a huge and nonsensical assertion here without any evidence at all, then said "don't believe the lies"!

sjducb 3y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/18/the-forgotten-oil-ads-that-told-us-climate-change-was-nothing https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/18/the-forg... Graphic history of the ads they run, showing a change in message over the last 60 years.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- revelio 3y ago
  The last ads aren't saying climate change can't be stopped, they're saying that there's no viable way to replace oil and gas completely. Which is true. But The Guardian is a trash filled propaganda rag and says: "In contradiction to the science of stopping global heating, big oil asserts that fossil fuels will be essential for the foreseeable future." which is stupid. There isn't even such a thing as the "science of stopping global heating", that's something the Guardian made up. People (not just "big oil") are pointing out the blatantly obvious with this statement, even greens agree with that which is why so many talk about ideas like geo-engineering. As for their earlier ads, they are stating things that were and still are true. Fanatics have created a culture in which people are punished for pointing these things out but climatologists did in fact claim during the 60s and 70s there would be a new ice age, for example, and they still don't understand the physics of the climate by their own admission hence the hot model problem.