4 ms·

How do you know other animals are not self-aware? Is self-awareness a criteria for not being killed and eaten? Is it not pain and suffering that really matters?

• PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  Because we have numerous tests that test for self-awareness, we can infer from behavior, and we can study brain layout and activity. Pain and suffering are irrelevant given we can kill animals in a humane way. Only the right to life is relevant.
  • ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
    The bluestreak cleaner wrasse [1-3] runs back and forth comparing the size of itself from an image with potential threats to know if it must fight or flight. Octopuses are famously smart [4]. Any intelligence or self-awareness test is also a test on the tester: how good are they in detecting what matters for the biomachine [5]/animal in testing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaner_fish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaner_fish [2] video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujy9EmUzN4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujy9EmUzN4E [3] article: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2208420120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2208420120 [4] https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/octopuses-keep-surprising-us-here-are-eight-examples-how.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/octopuses-keep-surprising-us-... [5] "Xenobots: the Age of Biological Robots", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77_yhkXzzo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w77_yhkXzzo
    • PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      I'm not saying no animals have self-awareness, indeed many do. Not just octopuses, also elephants, corvids, dogs, chimps, etc. The animals we commonly eat (chicken, cow, turkey, salmon, cod, etc) though don't seem to meet the criteria.
      • ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
        Right, I'm just saying we need a new framework (metaphysical, ethical, perhaps even socio-political if synthetic agents will be part of our society), beyond dichotomies such as natural/artificial, evolved/designed, organic/machine. Not sure how it should/would look like, best so far I could find is the concept of cognitive light cones [1] and the "Technological Approach to Mind Everywhere: An Experimentally-Grounded Framework for Understanding Diverse Bodies and Minds" [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnObwxJZpZc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnObwxJZpZc [2] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2022.768201/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2022.7682...