4 ms·

It's hard to see all the demographic shifts 20+ years ahead, or the kinds of turns a life can take. I stayed in SFUSD. Still in the city. Made money in crypto,

It's hard to see all the demographic shifts 20+ years ahead, or the kinds of turns a life can take. I stayed in SFUSD. Still in the city. Made money in crypto, haven't worked in quite a few years. My brother also went through and took a more traditional academia-to-government contractor path, house, three kids. All elite schooling does is put you on elite tracking. That is materially the best historically, but honestly, you can develop an amazing network and skillset online, too. That's mostly on the parents to realize that the opportunity exists - a lot of parents have difficulty keeping up with the interests of teenagers and just tell them to do their homework, but it's actually the moment where they can leverage a lot of wisdom and say, "no, actually the school assignment is nothing to stress over - just focus on building one good technical skill for yourself instead of the class, and if we don't know where to start we'll email some industry pros." There is a long tradition in tech of some of the most successful people being, at the start, eager students who actively sought out expert advice and built their network by going directly to the source - not to the highest status roles that get bombarded with that stuff, but to the people a bit behind the curtain, in a critical doing-of-things role. When you get enough of those, you end up well oriented to the actual challenges of the field, and school can melt away into the background as a how-to-get-there detail.

alephnerd 3y ago
At the individual level, I agree with you. We are both products of K-8 education in SFUSD, but a couple notes/clarifications 1. Target School =/= Elite School. CS@University of Utah is in no way elite, but is a major recruitment target for Adobe and graphics oriented companies. Same with SJSU (most SJ companies), Oregon State (NVIDIA/Intel), and UT Dallas (telco/networking). Even getting into an <affordable> T70 CS/EE/CE program is increasingly difficult as programs haven't expanded headcount, and getting significant scholarships require a 1450+ SAT at this point. 2. Target Role =/= High Status Role. I can safely state that MIT and Harvard CS students are having a hard time finding entry level roles at even "Ok" employers like Proofpoint or Sophos let alone internships. This causes pressure downwards as now there is increased competition for a smaller and smaller amount of roles. I'm a Product Manager at a niche late stage startup, and for my PM Intern roles I'm getting applications from MBA students at HBS/Tuck/Wharton who straight up told me the only reason they're applying to my role is because McKinsey and Bain revoked internship offers. 1 year ago, I was having difficulty getting interns who even did a BSBA at Haas, but now I have the pick of the litter. The same thing is happening everywhere across all levels of companies. Entry Levels roles are much more competitive in the 2020s than they were when you and I both attended college (I'm going to assume the early-to-mid 2010s). Every entry level role assumes internship experience now, whereas that was much less common in the early-to-mid 2010s (you could go to SFSU without an internship and still land some entry level SWE role somewhere). 3. Macro-Level College Readiness You and I both did well and did K-8 in the same school district, but did the majority of our 8th grade and/or 12th grade class do well? For the sake of this discussion let's assume "well" is defined as on track to a white collar position earning $110,000 a year by 30 ($110k in 2023 is comparable to $90k in 2010). This benchmark requires higher education within Tech+Accounting+Finance, and school districts like SFUSD have a College Going Rate (includes Community College) rate of around 68% compared to a wealthy district like Los Gatos Unified (88%). And then when you factor in tests scores (used to determine scholarship and program admissions) this gets even more stark, with the median SFUSD and LGSHUSD SAT scores being 1230 and 1330 respectively. With all these factors combined, it has become harder to get your foot into the door. There will be smart outliers always (a good friend of mine in college was the only kid in his inner city HS to be college bound and we attended an elite T10 program), but at the macro level, you have less chances and the margin of error is much higher. Make one bad mistake and you won't have a safety net to land on. And that's what alumni networks are at the end of the day - professional safety nets that help us find new opportunities. When I have kids, I'd want them to have an easier time succeeding in life, and this means giving them as much of a safety net as possible, that way if they don't have the ability to hustle, they can still be set for life. PS - which SFUSD hs did you attend? The outcomes at Abe Lincoln or Lowell are different from Mission or Ida B Wells

alephnerd 3y ago

At the individual level, I agree with you. We are both products of K-8 education in SFUSD, but a couple notes/clarifications 1. Target School =/= Elite School. CS@University of Utah is in no way elite, but is a major recruitment target for Adobe and graphics oriented companies. Same with SJSU (most SJ companies), Oregon State (NVIDIA/Intel), and UT Dallas (telco/networking). Even getting into an <affordable> T70 CS/EE/CE program is increasingly difficult as programs haven't expanded headcount, and getting significant scholarships require a 1450+ SAT at this point. 2. Target Role =/= High Status Role. I can safely state that MIT and Harvard CS students are having a hard time finding entry level roles at even "Ok" employers like Proofpoint or Sophos let alone internships. This causes pressure downwards as now there is increased competition for a smaller and smaller amount of roles. I'm a Product Manager at a niche late stage startup, and for my PM Intern roles I'm getting applications from MBA students at HBS/Tuck/Wharton who straight up told me the only reason they're applying to my role is because McKinsey and Bain revoked internship offers. 1 year ago, I was having difficulty getting interns who even did a BSBA at Haas, but now I have the pick of the litter. The same thing is happening everywhere across all levels of companies. Entry Levels roles are much more competitive in the 2020s than they were when you and I both attended college (I'm going to assume the early-to-mid 2010s). Every entry level role assumes internship experience now, whereas that was much less common in the early-to-mid 2010s (you could go to SFSU without an internship and still land some entry level SWE role somewhere). 3. Macro-Level College Readiness You and I both did well and did K-8 in the same school district, but did the majority of our 8th grade and/or 12th grade class do well? For the sake of this discussion let's assume "well" is defined as on track to a white collar position earning $110,000 a year by 30 ($110k in 2023 is comparable to $90k in 2010). This benchmark requires higher education within Tech+Accounting+Finance, and school districts like SFUSD have a College Going Rate (includes Community College) rate of around 68% compared to a wealthy district like Los Gatos Unified (88%). And then when you factor in tests scores (used to determine scholarship and program admissions) this gets even more stark, with the median SFUSD and LGSHUSD SAT scores being 1230 and 1330 respectively. With all these factors combined, it has become harder to get your foot into the door. There will be smart outliers always (a good friend of mine in college was the only kid in his inner city HS to be college bound and we attended an elite T10 program), but at the macro level, you have less chances and the margin of error is much higher. Make one bad mistake and you won't have a safety net to land on. And that's what alumni networks are at the end of the day - professional safety nets that help us find new opportunities. When I have kids, I'd want them to have an easier time succeeding in life, and this means giving them as much of a safety net as possible, that way if they don't have the ability to hustle, they can still be set for life. PS - which SFUSD hs did you attend? The outcomes at Abe Lincoln or Lowell are different from Mission or Ida B Wells