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> Metal is the only post-Swift framework that was written in Objective-C. Still untrue. Again, see the referenced blog posts. Indeed, aside from SwiftUI, whic

by lapcat 4y ago

> Metal is the only post-Swift framework that was written in Objective-C. Still untrue. Again, see the referenced blog posts. Indeed, aside from SwiftUI, which is still half-baked on macOS, I'm not aware of many Swift frameworks in the OS. After all, the frameworks still need to provide API to Objective-C apps, including Apple's own apps, not to mention 3rd party apps. The requirements to ship a Swift framework in the system, such as ABI stability and others, are a relatively recent addition to the language: https://www.swift.org/blog/abi-stability-and-more/ https://www.swift.org/blog/abi-stability-and-more/

pjmlp 4y ago
None of the related post mentions any other Objective-C framework written from scratch, XCode File=>New without dependencies on older technology, after Swift came to be. > The Objective-C language, AppKit & UIKit frameworks, and Interface Builder have empowered generations of developers. These technologies were built for each other, and will continue to serve us well for a long time to come, but over time new abstractions become necessary. For a while now, you've seen us hard at work defining the next generation of integrated language, frameworks, and tools: Swift, SwiftUI, and Xcode Previews. > > Tight integration in a development platform like this requires that all three pieces be designed and evolved together, both driving and driven by one another. Swift result builders were inspired by SwiftUI's compositional structure. SwiftUI's declarative views were enabled by Swift value types. And Xcode Previews was specifically designed for, and enabled by, both. Now, the result is the best development platform that we have ever built. And this year, Swift, SwiftUI, and Xcode all have fantastic updates that take this vision further, and make it even easier for you to build great apps for all of our platforms. And it all starts with Swift. Now Ben from the Swift team is gonna tell you all about what's next. -- https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/
- lapcat 4y ago
  > None of the related post mentions any other Objective-C framework written from scratch It doesn't mention Swift frameworks written from scratch either, but the numbers pretty much speak for themselves. By all means, though, please list the many new Swift frameworks. > -- https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ I have no idea why you're quoting that at me.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    SwiftUI, Swift bindinds for Metal, the new macOS Dock, the new daemon launcher, the new documentation system, package infrastructure, the new background services, the server side frameworks, the new photos picker, playgrounds are all written in Swift. Other than Metal, all the Objective-C code predates Swift, and is ongoing maintenaince work nothing else, that is why I am quoting that to you, Apple's own words at WWDC to make it clear for anyone that still isn't getting it, Objective-C is DONE, time to move on. Objective-C is the VB 6, Win32, Forms, WPF of Apple's world, it isn't going away, it isn't getting updated either other than maintenance and security fixes.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > the new macOS Dock, the new daemon launcher, the new documentation system, package infrastructure, the new background services, the server side frameworks, the new photos picker, playgrounds are all written in Swift. The Dock is an app, not a framework. The things you listed are not frameworks, aside from whatever you mean by "the server side frameworks", which being server-side would by definition not be in macOS. "Framework" has a very specific meaning in the OS: a .framework bundle, providing a linkable executable and typically an API, with the system frameworks residing in /System/Library/Frameworks. "Other than Metal, all the Objective-C code predates Swift, and is ongoing maintenaince work nothing else" This is still false, you have nothing but anecdotal, cherry-picked evidence, the numbers from the blog posts I cited suggest otherwise, you appear to be quite ignorant, and I'm tired of arguing with you, so I'm indeed DONE here.

by lapcat 4y ago

pjmlp 4y ago

None of the related post mentions any other Objective-C framework written from scratch, XCode File=>New without dependencies on older technology, after Swift came to be. > The Objective-C language, AppKit & UIKit frameworks, and Interface Builder have empowered generations of developers. These technologies were built for each other, and will continue to serve us well for a long time to come, but over time new abstractions become necessary. For a while now, you've seen us hard at work defining the next generation of integrated language, frameworks, and tools: Swift, SwiftUI, and Xcode Previews. > > Tight integration in a development platform like this requires that all three pieces be designed and evolved together, both driving and driven by one another. Swift result builders were inspired by SwiftUI's compositional structure. SwiftUI's declarative views were enabled by Swift value types. And Xcode Previews was specifically designed for, and enabled by, both. Now, the result is the best development platform that we have ever built. And this year, Swift, SwiftUI, and Xcode all have fantastic updates that take this vision further, and make it even easier for you to build great apps for all of our platforms. And it all starts with Swift. Now Ben from the Swift team is gonna tell you all about what's next. -- https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/

lapcat 4y ago
> None of the related post mentions any other Objective-C framework written from scratch It doesn't mention Swift frameworks written from scratch either, but the numbers pretty much speak for themselves. By all means, though, please list the many new Swift frameworks. > -- https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/102/ I have no idea why you're quoting that at me.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  SwiftUI, Swift bindinds for Metal, the new macOS Dock, the new daemon launcher, the new documentation system, package infrastructure, the new background services, the server side frameworks, the new photos picker, playgrounds are all written in Swift. Other than Metal, all the Objective-C code predates Swift, and is ongoing maintenaince work nothing else, that is why I am quoting that to you, Apple's own words at WWDC to make it clear for anyone that still isn't getting it, Objective-C is DONE, time to move on. Objective-C is the VB 6, Win32, Forms, WPF of Apple's world, it isn't going away, it isn't getting updated either other than maintenance and security fixes.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > the new macOS Dock, the new daemon launcher, the new documentation system, package infrastructure, the new background services, the server side frameworks, the new photos picker, playgrounds are all written in Swift. The Dock is an app, not a framework. The things you listed are not frameworks, aside from whatever you mean by "the server side frameworks", which being server-side would by definition not be in macOS. "Framework" has a very specific meaning in the OS: a .framework bundle, providing a linkable executable and typically an API, with the system frameworks residing in /System/Library/Frameworks. "Other than Metal, all the Objective-C code predates Swift, and is ongoing maintenaince work nothing else" This is still false, you have nothing but anecdotal, cherry-picked evidence, the numbers from the blog posts I cited suggest otherwise, you appear to be quite ignorant, and I'm tired of arguing with you, so I'm indeed DONE here.