6 ms·

The dictatorship in Turkey is falling tomorrow

49 points by dostoynikov 3y ago

Aerbil313 3y ago
Erdogan is not a dictator. * Turks are able to boo and mock and yell at him all day everyday in social media. * The man won 15 elections in 20 years. * Half of Turks voted for him today, and so did I. * If he can be voted out, it’s not dictatorship.
dostoynikov 3y ago
Please wish Turkish people luck! It is so important not only for Turkey but all countries who live under dictatorships.
rurban 3y ago
Given the election frauds in the last Erdogan elections, I doubt it.
- dostoynikov 3y ago
  Well, the opposition fought against all fraud and rigging and won elections in major cities in last elections and it became hope for everyone as it happened for the first time in 20 years.
- Diogeness 3y ago
  I totally agree with you. I guess Kemal will win this election but other side wouldn't accept this result.
  - lokar 3y ago
    Post-trump that is the standard playbook for authoritarians
    - incone123 3y ago
      This has been common elsewhere since long before trump.
      - xenospn 3y ago
        Not in the west/near west.
        incone123 3y ago
        The comment I replied to didn't specify that. It came off as a lazy way to collect upvotes while also displaying an ignorance of the wider world. And your comment similarly presumes that Western/near Western players are unaware of and uninfluenced by the wider world.
sabertoothed 3y ago
One can only hope that Turkey does not become a religious dictatorship.
- ur-whale 3y ago
  > One can only hope that Turkey does not become a religious dictatorship. I guess you meant "does not become a religious dictatorship again"
  - sabertoothed 3y ago
    That's is a subset of my statement. Also agreed.
haunter 3y ago
I was just cheking betting odds and they are all over the place, not a common sight.
rvz 3y ago
Good luck. We'll see what happens, but I don't think it will be as 'peaceful' or will go as expected either way. I hope I'm wrong.
kabes 3y ago
It's hard to believe these days that Erdogan once was a pretty good leader. As the mayor of Istanbul he really helped transform the city in a good way (with enough exceptions, but still). But unfortunately he fell in all the traps that so many people that are given too much power for too long seem to do.
- oleg_antonyan 3y ago
  Even harder to believe that Pu*in wasn't that bad 20 years ago. If you bombard an average person with unlimited power for 20+ years they can emit corruption, oppression and eventually war
- ur-whale 3y ago
  > It's hard to believe these days that Erdogan once was a pretty good leader. Either that or he was smart enough to look like a good leader when he was in fact playing the long game to get to the top.
  - wslh 3y ago
    Power is a beast in itself. Not supporting these leaders but there are plenty of examples were power reshape people. Obviously, it can be say that few people is ready to receive a lot of power and have an ethics for good.
    - dllthomas 3y ago
      By the nature of it, to substantial degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
- readthenotes1 3y ago
  "Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals" -Robert Caro
MauroIksem 3y ago
If he can be voted out then by definition that is not a dictatorship.
- Diogeness 3y ago
  As a theoretical yes but practice... basic example; Türkiye citizenship couldn't access to news about earthquake. Also meantime blocked biggest social platform at Türkiye. etc. etc.
  - merth 3y ago
    > citizenship couldn't access to news thats a good day in west
- ur-whale 3y ago
  > If he can be voted out then by definition that is not a dictatorship. Correct, except for the fact that he hasn't handed the reins over yet. I'll agree with you if he actually hands the power over peacefully, most certainly not a given if you consider some of his exactions in the past 5 years.
- dostoynikov 3y ago
  Well, maybe definition of dictatorship is wider than we think. There is a one-man regime in Turkey currently and he can just do whatever he pleases thanks to the regime he created. Turkish public opinion calls it a dictatorship.
- xg15 3y ago
  While that's true, it is possible that an an elected government transforms the country into a dictatorship, e.g. by undermining the other branches of government, seeking control over the judiciary, press; changing the constitution to give themselves additional powers, etc. That's happening in a lot of countries and from what I know (not in Turkey), it's also something that Erdogan did.
- sabertoothed 3y ago
  He certainly tried to become a dictator.
wslh 3y ago
Could you elaborate about the alternatives to Erdogan and their thoughts?
- dostoynikov 3y ago
  The alternative is right now is Kemal Kilicdaroglu. He is social democrat and his party, CHP, values in power of law, education, secularism, freedom, art, tech. They will ensure the transition from a one-man regime to a parliamentary system and restore democracy, separation of powers.
merth 3y ago
google dictatorship ; form of government in which one person or a small group possesses absolute power without effective constitutional limitations yet he is falling with an election?
- dostoynikov 3y ago
  Well, maybe definition of dictatorship is wider than we think. There is a one-man regime in Turkey currently and he can just do whatever he pleases thanks to the regime he created. Turkish public opinion calls it a dictatorship.
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    Nah. Western media and Turkish leftists call it a dictatorship. Think about it, half of the Turkish media and people are ABLE TO call it a dictatorship, is this a dictatorship? It’s not even near a one-man regime. Western media is hallucinating whatever fits their narratives. Source: I’m a Turk living in Turkey.
mclide 3y ago
Meanwhile, "In response to legal process and to ensure Twitter remains available to the people of Turkey, we have taken action to restrict access to some content in Turkey today." https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288 https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288
- xenospn 3y ago
  “free speech absolutist”
ur-whale 3y ago
While I strongly wish Erdogan will be ousted tomorrow, it's rather unfortunate that if he his, he'll be replaced by a hard-core socialist, and there is therefore a sizable likelihood that Turkey will be in an even worse shape in the hands of the next leader.
- cyco130 3y ago
  Kılıçdaroğlu is not a socialist by any stretch of imagination, let alone a hard-core one. He’s center-left at best. Besides, the coalition includes right wing conservatives, right wing nationalists, and liberals.
hprotagonist 3y ago
your lips to god’s ears.
gargalatas 3y ago
Erdogan was a good leader as long as he was applying his beliefs. Once he decided to listen to the most uneducated part of turkey he became a dictator. More than 40% of the people still like him. If it wasn't the earthquake we would still be first! On the other side, Kilicdaroglu is a worst nationalist than Erdogan. Most probably for me, he will try to exploit the situation and become the new king. I hope the other members will hold him.
peter_retief 3y ago
I hope there will be change to a more secular government.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

49 points by dostoynikov 3y ago

Erdogan is not a dictator. * Turks are able to boo and mock and yell at him all day everyday in social media. * The man won 15 elections in 20 years. * Half of Turks voted for him today, and so did I. * If he can be voted out, it’s not dictatorship.

dostoynikov 3y ago

Please wish Turkish people luck! It is so important not only for Turkey but all countries who live under dictatorships.

rurban 3y ago

Given the election frauds in the last Erdogan elections, I doubt it.

dostoynikov 3y ago
Well, the opposition fought against all fraud and rigging and won elections in major cities in last elections and it became hope for everyone as it happened for the first time in 20 years.
Diogeness 3y ago
I totally agree with you. I guess Kemal will win this election but other side wouldn't accept this result.
- lokar 3y ago
  Post-trump that is the standard playbook for authoritarians
  - incone123 3y ago
    This has been common elsewhere since long before trump.
    - xenospn 3y ago
      Not in the west/near west.
      - incone123 3y ago
        The comment I replied to didn't specify that. It came off as a lazy way to collect upvotes while also displaying an ignorance of the wider world. And your comment similarly presumes that Western/near Western players are unaware of and uninfluenced by the wider world.

sabertoothed 3y ago

One can only hope that Turkey does not become a religious dictatorship.

ur-whale 3y ago
> One can only hope that Turkey does not become a religious dictatorship. I guess you meant "does not become a religious dictatorship again"
- sabertoothed 3y ago
  That's is a subset of my statement. Also agreed.

haunter 3y ago

I was just cheking betting odds and they are all over the place, not a common sight.

rvz 3y ago

Good luck. We'll see what happens, but I don't think it will be as 'peaceful' or will go as expected either way. I hope I'm wrong.

kabes 3y ago

It's hard to believe these days that Erdogan once was a pretty good leader. As the mayor of Istanbul he really helped transform the city in a good way (with enough exceptions, but still). But unfortunately he fell in all the traps that so many people that are given too much power for too long seem to do.

oleg_antonyan 3y ago
Even harder to believe that Pu*in wasn't that bad 20 years ago. If you bombard an average person with unlimited power for 20+ years they can emit corruption, oppression and eventually war
ur-whale 3y ago
> It's hard to believe these days that Erdogan once was a pretty good leader. Either that or he was smart enough to look like a good leader when he was in fact playing the long game to get to the top.
- wslh 3y ago
  Power is a beast in itself. Not supporting these leaders but there are plenty of examples were power reshape people. Obviously, it can be say that few people is ready to receive a lot of power and have an ethics for good.
  - dllthomas 3y ago
    By the nature of it, to substantial degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
readthenotes1 3y ago
"Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals" -Robert Caro

MauroIksem 3y ago

If he can be voted out then by definition that is not a dictatorship.

Diogeness 3y ago
As a theoretical yes but practice... basic example; Türkiye citizenship couldn't access to news about earthquake. Also meantime blocked biggest social platform at Türkiye. etc. etc.
- merth 3y ago
  > citizenship couldn't access to news thats a good day in west
ur-whale 3y ago
> If he can be voted out then by definition that is not a dictatorship. Correct, except for the fact that he hasn't handed the reins over yet. I'll agree with you if he actually hands the power over peacefully, most certainly not a given if you consider some of his exactions in the past 5 years.
dostoynikov 3y ago
Well, maybe definition of dictatorship is wider than we think. There is a one-man regime in Turkey currently and he can just do whatever he pleases thanks to the regime he created. Turkish public opinion calls it a dictatorship.
xg15 3y ago
While that's true, it is possible that an an elected government transforms the country into a dictatorship, e.g. by undermining the other branches of government, seeking control over the judiciary, press; changing the constitution to give themselves additional powers, etc. That's happening in a lot of countries and from what I know (not in Turkey), it's also something that Erdogan did.
sabertoothed 3y ago
He certainly tried to become a dictator.

wslh 3y ago

Could you elaborate about the alternatives to Erdogan and their thoughts?

dostoynikov 3y ago
The alternative is right now is Kemal Kilicdaroglu. He is social democrat and his party, CHP, values in power of law, education, secularism, freedom, art, tech. They will ensure the transition from a one-man regime to a parliamentary system and restore democracy, separation of powers.

merth 3y ago

google dictatorship ; form of government in which one person or a small group possesses absolute power without effective constitutional limitations yet he is falling with an election?

dostoynikov 3y ago
Well, maybe definition of dictatorship is wider than we think. There is a one-man regime in Turkey currently and he can just do whatever he pleases thanks to the regime he created. Turkish public opinion calls it a dictatorship.
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  Nah. Western media and Turkish leftists call it a dictatorship. Think about it, half of the Turkish media and people are ABLE TO call it a dictatorship, is this a dictatorship? It’s not even near a one-man regime. Western media is hallucinating whatever fits their narratives. Source: I’m a Turk living in Turkey.

mclide 3y ago

Meanwhile, "In response to legal process and to ensure Twitter remains available to the people of Turkey, we have taken action to restrict access to some content in Turkey today." https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288 https://twitter.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1657219168863756288

xenospn 3y ago
“free speech absolutist”

ur-whale 3y ago

While I strongly wish Erdogan will be ousted tomorrow, it's rather unfortunate that if he his, he'll be replaced by a hard-core socialist, and there is therefore a sizable likelihood that Turkey will be in an even worse shape in the hands of the next leader.

cyco130 3y ago
Kılıçdaroğlu is not a socialist by any stretch of imagination, let alone a hard-core one. He’s center-left at best. Besides, the coalition includes right wing conservatives, right wing nationalists, and liberals.

hprotagonist 3y ago

your lips to god’s ears.

gargalatas 3y ago

Erdogan was a good leader as long as he was applying his beliefs. Once he decided to listen to the most uneducated part of turkey he became a dictator. More than 40% of the people still like him. If it wasn't the earthquake we would still be first! On the other side, Kilicdaroglu is a worst nationalist than Erdogan. Most probably for me, he will try to exploit the situation and become the new king. I hope the other members will hold him.

peter_retief 3y ago

I hope there will be change to a more secular government.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]