6 ms·

Did you know Brother makes really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long, happy, life? And their drivers aren't user hostile? This is one of those

Did you know Brother makes really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long, happy, life? And their drivers aren't user hostile? This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations.

alanbernstein 3y ago
I know that. There are no signs at best buy that tell people that BEFORE they unknowingly buy these garbage products.
macintux 3y ago
During previous discussions about this there have been some comments indicating Brother is headed down this road as well. No idea how accurate that is.
- jwilk 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
wongarsu 3y ago
Or buy a laser printer. They cost a bit more upfront, but a single toner cartridge lasts ages (and won't dry out or get used up in cleaning cycles), the printers are generally much more robust and longer lasting, and because laser printing isn't as patent-encumbered there's more actual competition and less outright user-hostile behavior.
- sgc 3y ago
  I use a Brother laser with non-oem cartridge. That is what Brother is known for.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    I learned to hate HP inkjets. I decided never to buy HP again. When I eventually gave up on inkjets altogether, I bought a Samsung laser. It didn't cost much more than an inkjet, toner lasts for ages, doesn't dry up, and it works fine. But as soon as I googled the support pages, it turned out Samsung's printer division had been acquired by HP, the website was impossible to navigate, and there wasn't any documentation. So my one-man boycott failed.
    - mcv 3y ago
      Same here. I would never ever buy anything from HP, but now my Samsung printer gets its support from HP. I feel betrayed. And I don't know if it's related, but my Samsung wireless network printer does not print from the network anymore.
      - ryao 3y ago
        My Samsung printer does not support networking. If I want to put it on the network, I need to put it behind a print host. That being said, at least Samsung toner is cheap: https://www.aaatoner.com/blreto4.html https://www.aaatoner.com/blreto4.html I can get 1kg of toner for my printer for $35 before shipping. The cartridges only hold 90 grams. There is even a third party chipless update to disable the chip: https://inkchip.net/laser/ https://inkchip.net/laser/ Unfortunately, the imaging drum is integrated with the cartridge, is not meant to last and HP is not making new ones. I do not know how many refills I will get out of it. However, the starter toner cartridge lasted 8 years and I replaced it with a regular cartridge at that time, so it will be a long time before I need to refill its replacement. That said, I felt betrayed when Samsung sold its printing unit to HP too. :/
        mcv 3y ago
        I was not aware of any of this. Thank you! I've just been buying on- or off-brand toner cartridges for way more money than this. (The off-brand ones work fine, the on-brand ones are certainly not perfect; this thing is terrible at photos.)
  - jbaber 3y ago
    I buy authentic Brother toner cartridges out of gratitude. I was so happy after years of HP's bad treatment.
  - ryao 3y ago
    They started cracking down on that a year or two ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mfc_firmware_update_nongenuine_toner_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mf...
- userbinator 3y ago
  Lasers printers that use cartridges have similar DRM. and won't dry out or get used up in cleaning cycles On the other hand, if you live in a humid climate, toner can clump. This may explain the popularity of inkjets in Southeast Asia.
- joering2 3y ago
  I would like to vouch for Xerox laser printers. Not only they don't identify your printouts with tiny yellow markings/serial number, but also they gladly accept off-market toners, and places like Amazon have many different brands that race to the bottom of price making it easy to try out what works for you. I am on my third Xerox laser printer and couldn't be happier.
  - vr46 3y ago
    I bought an awesome Xerox duplex colour laser two years and can confirm. Superb. Way better than the Samsung/HP thing it replaced. About to put more after-market toners in tomorrow
  - ryao 3y ago
    Their low end models are just rebadged Lexmark printers while their high models are rebadged Samsung printers (the same IP that is now owned by HP). It is a shame that they stopped developing their own models.
    - ksec 3y ago
      OH wow. So Xerox dont make laser any more? I always thought it was Samsung that buy laser from Xerox, not the other way round.
- scarface74 3y ago
  Exactly this, I've not gone near an inkjet printer since 1992. When Apple released it's first "affordable" $1000 laser printer.
- cydonian_monk 3y ago
  Even they're not exempt from being messed with. I had an HP color laser printer which, when purchased, would print on any paper size that would fit in the printer. (Specifically used it to print to US Legal Size.) A firmware update some years back disabled printing to anything larger than US Letter Sized. I now own a Brother printer that is perfectly happy to print to larger paper.
- xahrepap 3y ago
  Still avoid HP. I have an HP color laser printer. It worked flawlessly. Then the toner ran out and I replaced it with a 3rd party toner. The printer just stopped working from most of my computers. I tried everything. I was going to replace it, then decided to try a 1st party cartridge again. And it’s been basically flawless again. Such a scam.
- croutonwagon 3y ago
  Lasers also have issues. I had a laser my last printer but had issues with the imgaging drum and other parts. Eventually tonor ended up on some of the rollers and the printer was basically useless at this point. I bought an epson workforce back some years ago. When it had printing issues i was able to do some cleaning runs and reslove. I have used ink quite a bit over time. But probably not nearly as much as the imaging drum, rollers and other parts i ended up swapping trying to stop the darkened prints on my main machine. The original laser was about 400 bucks, inkjet like 89.99. I dont think i spent more on the inkjet, even after the swaps.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- RandomBK 3y ago
  I'm still rocking a Brother DCP-7060D from over a decade ago, using an aftermarket toner I bought from my university tech store.
kerkeslager 3y ago
Yes, I was going to mention Brother. They're excellent; I've bought their products for years. But, given advertising is legal, and HP advertises much more aggressively than Brother, we can't rely on "vote with your wallet" to solve this problem. "Vote with your wallet" doesn't work when one competitor is spending money on making quality products and the other is spending money on advertising. The entire premise that capitalism brings the best products at the lowest cost is falsified by advertising.
ravenstine 3y ago
I've had my Brother laser printer for 10 years, only changed the toner cartridge once, and it immediately starts printing when you need it to. One of the best purchases I ever made!
einpoklum 3y ago
I use a Brother multi-function (MFC-L2710DW). > And their drivers aren't user hostile? They offer a closed-source Linux and you need to download an installer from them (an i386 binary, which also works on i686 and x86_64); so, not great. The driver is mostly-reliable, although every once in a while it does kind of give out on you and printing fails, possibly until a restart. I suppose on Windows it's better. > really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long life? I bought mine about 4.5 years ago; hardware seems fine so far. > happy life yeah, so... not so much when it comes to toners. Either the toner capacity is really low, or the MFP becomes disenchanted with toners quickly. I get "Toner Low" extremely quickly - even with only a few hundred pages printed. Granted, I don't print much these days, but still. And I've already experienced a case in which I put in a new toner and was already told it was low. Other than that no complaints.
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  >They offer a closed-source Linux and you need to download an installer from them Similar experience with their label printers, except they only had a i386 binary, which rather killed my idea of a raspberry pi print server. Also it was generally just terrible and froze after a few labels.
- scarface74 3y ago
  It amazes that in 2023, other operating systems still need separate drivers for printers. I just look for AirPrint compatible printers and they work seamless from my Mac, iPhone and iPad. I pulled an old 2010 iPad out a couple of years ago and it could print to a brand new printer.
  - einpoklum 3y ago
    > I just look for AirPrint compatible printers A custom, single-vendor protocol? Hmm. Is it at least license-free and patent-free? ... I doubt it.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      You mean like Postscript? No there is no license fee. This is just like everything else on modern operating system. Apple defines a protocol for printers and if you follow that protocol, Apple guarantees compatibility and the user doesn’t have to worry about printer drivers and the manufacturer doesn’t have to worry about creating a new printer driver when a new operating system is released. When a Windows user updates to a new OS, they have to often go find a new driver. I connect my Mac or iOS device to my WiFI network and it automatically found all of my of my AirPrint compatible printers. As a vendor, if I support AirPrint, my addressable market is anyone who has bought an iOS device since 2010 or a Mac since 2012. That’s a much better system than the malware that comes with most Windows printers.
snvzz 3y ago
Not every Brother printer is usable. Ethernet, IPP and Postscript support are requirements. So that they can work with generic drivers, on a range of platforms, without much setup complexity.
RobotToaster 3y ago
My brother laser seems to eat colour toner when it's only printing black and white for some reason. Don't get me wrong, it's still a decent printer, but short of what I would consider "really good". Also, I read here in another thread that a recent firmware update also blocked third party cartridges.
galleywest200 3y ago
Brother is great unless you need to configure it to fax over VoIP. I recall horror stories from my technical support days. Had to walk users, over the phone, through navigating to the settings and then changing a binary (literally) value. > Ok now it says 01101101 and I need you to change it to 10001111. Something to that effect. Ew.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  To be fair, that's a truly niche usecase.
themodelplumber 3y ago
HPLIP though...HP has done a good job of making no-brainer printers even be no-brainers in Linux. The value proposition is especially relevant if the printers & refills themselves are simple business expenses. Not saying the company is perfect, but there's a lot of room between the headlines and day-to-day use.
jmugan 3y ago
I bought a Brother laser printer like the internet told me to, and I even paid extra money to get the one that is easy to connect on wifi, but we can't seem to connect the printer to any macs wirelessly. It only connects to the iphones and the ubuntu machine. It just doesn't show up in macs. Anyone know anything about that?
- judge2020 3y ago
  Have you tried manually adding it? When adding a printer you can change the type to 'airprint' which makes it discoverable in the same way that iphones discover printers. You could also use the IP address directly if you must.
  - jmugan 3y ago
    Thanks, I'll look at that. Since it doesn't show up I'm not sure what to add. The printer doesn't identify itself in any way.
- anadem 3y ago
  Make sure it has a fixed IP and doesn't default to using DHCP (not sure this will fix yours, but saw a thread elsewhere where that was the cure)
  - jmugan 3y ago
    I'll check that, thanks!
  - LorenPechtel 3y ago
    Yup, beware of DHCP with printers. I've never not been burned.
makeitdouble 3y ago
> This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations. This is a really good situation for actual voting, like actual political action to have regulation, instead of pretend voting. HP probably doesn't give a damn about the HN crowd, it won't affect their business line in the little, so there's no signaling here. And assuming Brother gets enough of a loyal following, they can now (probably already are) jack the prices and push the envelope of what's acceptable as business practices, until you'll have to start looking around again at who's left to let you escape predatory practices.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  Hard disagree. This is how Chrome won the browser wars - people ask their nerdy cousin which browser to use. The market of HN is small, but the market power is large. Also, I guarantee you people here make large corporate purchases for things like printers, networking equipment - stuff HP cares about.
  - ezst 3y ago
    How ironic, the very thing OP warned against happened to Chrome: being now a monopoly it pushes very uncool stuff and no amount of geeks can undo that.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    Have you ever been asked what printer to buy ? I have family members ask to _fix_ their printers, never had one actually taking advice before buying one nor follow advice. And the reason is simple: - Google has a tremendous positive brand image in most people's mind, Brother means nothing outside of the elderly generation. - Printers are seen as a commodity and get thrown at people for 30 bucks at the supermarket. They also work well for the first 30~40 prints, and while we'll bitch about printer ink price, regular people will see it as a cost of doing business and pay. - Brother printers are reliable but actually not that good from a "what features do you have ?" customer standpoint. I ended up having a secundary HP printer for that very reason: it fits in a niche that no other sane printer maker will touch. And come to think of it, my parents bought the same HP printer after seeing use it in vacation, and they never asked about our Xerox in the living room. And yes, they buy HP cartridges (they also didn't ask me before buying...) Large corporate purchases: nobody "buys" printer or ink. They comes with a lease and a maintenance contract, and are paid by the page. If the technician comes within 3h to fix the printer and it works ok for another 40 days, no office manager will care about what exact printers are set in the buildings.
jihadjihad 3y ago
The last time printer shenanigans came up on HN, it was related specifically to apparent Brother shenanigans [0]. I was planning on buying a Brother at the time due to similar comments like yours, and still did so. I've been a happy customer since day 1 with the thing, it just works, even on mobile, and it's fast and quiet. I hope Brother can remain sane. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
dryanau 3y ago
Not true for my brother MFC. It mow refuses to accept generic toner.
SeriousM 3y ago
So they are true brothers to you?

alanbernstein 3y ago

I know that. There are no signs at best buy that tell people that BEFORE they unknowingly buy these garbage products.

macintux 3y ago

During previous discussions about this there have been some comments indicating Brother is headed down this road as well. No idea how accurate that is.

jwilk 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131

wongarsu 3y ago

Or buy a laser printer. They cost a bit more upfront, but a single toner cartridge lasts ages (and won't dry out or get used up in cleaning cycles), the printers are generally much more robust and longer lasting, and because laser printing isn't as patent-encumbered there's more actual competition and less outright user-hostile behavior.

sgc 3y ago
I use a Brother laser with non-oem cartridge. That is what Brother is known for.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  I learned to hate HP inkjets. I decided never to buy HP again. When I eventually gave up on inkjets altogether, I bought a Samsung laser. It didn't cost much more than an inkjet, toner lasts for ages, doesn't dry up, and it works fine. But as soon as I googled the support pages, it turned out Samsung's printer division had been acquired by HP, the website was impossible to navigate, and there wasn't any documentation. So my one-man boycott failed.
  - mcv 3y ago
    Same here. I would never ever buy anything from HP, but now my Samsung printer gets its support from HP. I feel betrayed. And I don't know if it's related, but my Samsung wireless network printer does not print from the network anymore.
    - ryao 3y ago
      My Samsung printer does not support networking. If I want to put it on the network, I need to put it behind a print host. That being said, at least Samsung toner is cheap: https://www.aaatoner.com/blreto4.html https://www.aaatoner.com/blreto4.html I can get 1kg of toner for my printer for $35 before shipping. The cartridges only hold 90 grams. There is even a third party chipless update to disable the chip: https://inkchip.net/laser/ https://inkchip.net/laser/ Unfortunately, the imaging drum is integrated with the cartridge, is not meant to last and HP is not making new ones. I do not know how many refills I will get out of it. However, the starter toner cartridge lasted 8 years and I replaced it with a regular cartridge at that time, so it will be a long time before I need to refill its replacement. That said, I felt betrayed when Samsung sold its printing unit to HP too. :/
      - mcv 3y ago
        I was not aware of any of this. Thank you! I've just been buying on- or off-brand toner cartridges for way more money than this. (The off-brand ones work fine, the on-brand ones are certainly not perfect; this thing is terrible at photos.)
- jbaber 3y ago
  I buy authentic Brother toner cartridges out of gratitude. I was so happy after years of HP's bad treatment.
- ryao 3y ago
  They started cracking down on that a year or two ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mfc_firmware_update_nongenuine_toner_now/ https://www.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/s9b2eg/brother_mf...
userbinator 3y ago
Lasers printers that use cartridges have similar DRM. and won't dry out or get used up in cleaning cycles On the other hand, if you live in a humid climate, toner can clump. This may explain the popularity of inkjets in Southeast Asia.
joering2 3y ago
I would like to vouch for Xerox laser printers. Not only they don't identify your printouts with tiny yellow markings/serial number, but also they gladly accept off-market toners, and places like Amazon have many different brands that race to the bottom of price making it easy to try out what works for you. I am on my third Xerox laser printer and couldn't be happier.
- vr46 3y ago
  I bought an awesome Xerox duplex colour laser two years and can confirm. Superb. Way better than the Samsung/HP thing it replaced. About to put more after-market toners in tomorrow
- ryao 3y ago
  Their low end models are just rebadged Lexmark printers while their high models are rebadged Samsung printers (the same IP that is now owned by HP). It is a shame that they stopped developing their own models.
  - ksec 3y ago
    OH wow. So Xerox dont make laser any more? I always thought it was Samsung that buy laser from Xerox, not the other way round.
scarface74 3y ago
Exactly this, I've not gone near an inkjet printer since 1992. When Apple released it's first "affordable" $1000 laser printer.
cydonian_monk 3y ago
Even they're not exempt from being messed with. I had an HP color laser printer which, when purchased, would print on any paper size that would fit in the printer. (Specifically used it to print to US Legal Size.) A firmware update some years back disabled printing to anything larger than US Letter Sized. I now own a Brother printer that is perfectly happy to print to larger paper.
xahrepap 3y ago
Still avoid HP. I have an HP color laser printer. It worked flawlessly. Then the toner ran out and I replaced it with a 3rd party toner. The printer just stopped working from most of my computers. I tried everything. I was going to replace it, then decided to try a 1st party cartridge again. And it’s been basically flawless again. Such a scam.
croutonwagon 3y ago
Lasers also have issues. I had a laser my last printer but had issues with the imgaging drum and other parts. Eventually tonor ended up on some of the rollers and the printer was basically useless at this point. I bought an epson workforce back some years ago. When it had printing issues i was able to do some cleaning runs and reslove. I have used ink quite a bit over time. But probably not nearly as much as the imaging drum, rollers and other parts i ended up swapping trying to stop the darkened prints on my main machine. The original laser was about 400 bucks, inkjet like 89.99. I dont think i spent more on the inkjet, even after the swaps.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RandomBK 3y ago
I'm still rocking a Brother DCP-7060D from over a decade ago, using an aftermarket toner I bought from my university tech store.

kerkeslager 3y ago

Yes, I was going to mention Brother. They're excellent; I've bought their products for years. But, given advertising is legal, and HP advertises much more aggressively than Brother, we can't rely on "vote with your wallet" to solve this problem. "Vote with your wallet" doesn't work when one competitor is spending money on making quality products and the other is spending money on advertising. The entire premise that capitalism brings the best products at the lowest cost is falsified by advertising.

ravenstine 3y ago

I've had my Brother laser printer for 10 years, only changed the toner cartridge once, and it immediately starts printing when you need it to. One of the best purchases I ever made!

einpoklum 3y ago

I use a Brother multi-function (MFC-L2710DW). > And their drivers aren't user hostile? They offer a closed-source Linux and you need to download an installer from them (an i386 binary, which also works on i686 and x86_64); so, not great. The driver is mostly-reliable, although every once in a while it does kind of give out on you and printing fails, possibly until a restart. I suppose on Windows it's better. > really good printers that are inexpensive and live a long life? I bought mine about 4.5 years ago; hardware seems fine so far. > happy life yeah, so... not so much when it comes to toners. Either the toner capacity is really low, or the MFP becomes disenchanted with toners quickly. I get "Toner Low" extremely quickly - even with only a few hundred pages printed. Granted, I don't print much these days, but still. And I've already experienced a case in which I put in a new toner and was already told it was low. Other than that no complaints.

RobotToaster 3y ago
>They offer a closed-source Linux and you need to download an installer from them Similar experience with their label printers, except they only had a i386 binary, which rather killed my idea of a raspberry pi print server. Also it was generally just terrible and froze after a few labels.
scarface74 3y ago
It amazes that in 2023, other operating systems still need separate drivers for printers. I just look for AirPrint compatible printers and they work seamless from my Mac, iPhone and iPad. I pulled an old 2010 iPad out a couple of years ago and it could print to a brand new printer.
- einpoklum 3y ago
  > I just look for AirPrint compatible printers A custom, single-vendor protocol? Hmm. Is it at least license-free and patent-free? ... I doubt it.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    You mean like Postscript? No there is no license fee. This is just like everything else on modern operating system. Apple defines a protocol for printers and if you follow that protocol, Apple guarantees compatibility and the user doesn’t have to worry about printer drivers and the manufacturer doesn’t have to worry about creating a new printer driver when a new operating system is released. When a Windows user updates to a new OS, they have to often go find a new driver. I connect my Mac or iOS device to my WiFI network and it automatically found all of my of my AirPrint compatible printers. As a vendor, if I support AirPrint, my addressable market is anyone who has bought an iOS device since 2010 or a Mac since 2012. That’s a much better system than the malware that comes with most Windows printers.

snvzz 3y ago

Not every Brother printer is usable. Ethernet, IPP and Postscript support are requirements. So that they can work with generic drivers, on a range of platforms, without much setup complexity.

RobotToaster 3y ago

My brother laser seems to eat colour toner when it's only printing black and white for some reason. Don't get me wrong, it's still a decent printer, but short of what I would consider "really good". Also, I read here in another thread that a recent firmware update also blocked third party cartridges.

galleywest200 3y ago

Brother is great unless you need to configure it to fax over VoIP. I recall horror stories from my technical support days. Had to walk users, over the phone, through navigating to the settings and then changing a binary (literally) value. > Ok now it says 01101101 and I need you to change it to 10001111. Something to that effect. Ew.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago
To be fair, that's a truly niche usecase.

themodelplumber 3y ago

HPLIP though...HP has done a good job of making no-brainer printers even be no-brainers in Linux. The value proposition is especially relevant if the printers & refills themselves are simple business expenses. Not saying the company is perfect, but there's a lot of room between the headlines and day-to-day use.

jmugan 3y ago

I bought a Brother laser printer like the internet told me to, and I even paid extra money to get the one that is easy to connect on wifi, but we can't seem to connect the printer to any macs wirelessly. It only connects to the iphones and the ubuntu machine. It just doesn't show up in macs. Anyone know anything about that?

judge2020 3y ago
Have you tried manually adding it? When adding a printer you can change the type to 'airprint' which makes it discoverable in the same way that iphones discover printers. You could also use the IP address directly if you must.
- jmugan 3y ago
  Thanks, I'll look at that. Since it doesn't show up I'm not sure what to add. The printer doesn't identify itself in any way.
anadem 3y ago
Make sure it has a fixed IP and doesn't default to using DHCP (not sure this will fix yours, but saw a thread elsewhere where that was the cure)
- jmugan 3y ago
  I'll check that, thanks!
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  Yup, beware of DHCP with printers. I've never not been burned.

makeitdouble 3y ago

> This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations. This is a really good situation for actual voting, like actual political action to have regulation, instead of pretend voting. HP probably doesn't give a damn about the HN crowd, it won't affect their business line in the little, so there's no signaling here. And assuming Brother gets enough of a loyal following, they can now (probably already are) jack the prices and push the envelope of what's acceptable as business practices, until you'll have to start looking around again at who's left to let you escape predatory practices.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Hard disagree. This is how Chrome won the browser wars - people ask their nerdy cousin which browser to use. The market of HN is small, but the market power is large. Also, I guarantee you people here make large corporate purchases for things like printers, networking equipment - stuff HP cares about.
- ezst 3y ago
  How ironic, the very thing OP warned against happened to Chrome: being now a monopoly it pushes very uncool stuff and no amount of geeks can undo that.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Have you ever been asked what printer to buy ? I have family members ask to _fix_ their printers, never had one actually taking advice before buying one nor follow advice. And the reason is simple: - Google has a tremendous positive brand image in most people's mind, Brother means nothing outside of the elderly generation. - Printers are seen as a commodity and get thrown at people for 30 bucks at the supermarket. They also work well for the first 30~40 prints, and while we'll bitch about printer ink price, regular people will see it as a cost of doing business and pay. - Brother printers are reliable but actually not that good from a "what features do you have ?" customer standpoint. I ended up having a secundary HP printer for that very reason: it fits in a niche that no other sane printer maker will touch. And come to think of it, my parents bought the same HP printer after seeing use it in vacation, and they never asked about our Xerox in the living room. And yes, they buy HP cartridges (they also didn't ask me before buying...) Large corporate purchases: nobody "buys" printer or ink. They comes with a lease and a maintenance contract, and are paid by the page. If the technician comes within 3h to fix the printer and it works ok for another 40 days, no office manager will care about what exact printers are set in the buildings.

jihadjihad 3y ago

The last time printer shenanigans came up on HN, it was related specifically to apparent Brother shenanigans [0]. I was planning on buying a Brother at the time due to similar comments like yours, and still did so. I've been a happy customer since day 1 with the thing, it just works, even on mobile, and it's fast and quiet. I hope Brother can remain sane. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131

dryanau 3y ago

Not true for my brother MFC. It mow refuses to accept generic toner.

SeriousM 3y ago

So they are true brothers to you?