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Interesting, I haven't heard of this. However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible? The Turkish "t
by mrtksn 4y ago
Interesting, I haven't heard of this. However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible?
The Turkish "tradition" is to switch power every 20 years and destroy those who previously held power. Before Erdogan, the secularists were in power and they are just as corrupt and oppressive. Their dominance in business and public life was systematically eroded and unfairly destroyed by Erdogan. The new secular opposition is much more liberal and actually harbours the ideals of the Erdogan's first term when he was considered liberal.
Actually the significant portion of the current opposition which is expected to win tomorrow consist of the "light" version of the soft nationalist, peaceful islamist, economic liberals, political kurds and soft seculars.
Very ironically, the remains of the politics who were destroyed by Erdogan are on the Erdogan's side on this election: The ultra nationalist, the hardcore islamists, the social democrats(which were in power when erdogan came), the Kemalists and the Kurds with history of violence(one part islamist kurds with connections to designated terrorist organisation and one part the communist guerrilla Kurds).
It's actually immensely entertaining. Erdogan has turned into the thing he came to destroy. Even more ironically, Erdogan came into power during an economical crisis and after a huge earthquake and he is about to lose power again during an economical crisis and huge earthquake.
- alephnerd 4y ago> However, wouldn't that mean that those in power would have nothing to fear to do the worst tings possible? Yep. That's the MASSIVE downside of the Korean model and why there is an insane amount of cynicism against politicians in South Korea. But the alternative is 3-5 years of violent demonstrations. The Korean model of pardons started in the 1980s when Korea was transitioning from a Military Dicatorship into a (kind of) Democracy. The elected dictator Chun Doo-hwan (1979-1988) was pardoned by democratically elected Roh Tae-woo (1988-1993) who was then pardoned by Kim Young-sam (1993-1997) after being "advised" by incoming president Kim Dae-jung (1998-2003). The same thing happened in the 2010s when Lee Myung-bak (2008-2013) was pardoned by Park Geun-hye (2013-2017) who herself was pardoned by Moon Jae-in (2017-2022). (Edit: pardons were given towards the end of the 2nd president's term, as rightly pointed out below) All this was done specifically to ensure social stability at the expense of "true democracy", but the results show for themselves. Turkey in 2023 is comparable to South Korea in the 1980s-90s, and can only grow if bygones are kept as bygones and people concentrate on the future. The alternative is 5-10 years of political polarization as well as incentivizing people to hold on to power to keep criminal immunity, thus perverting governance for the sake of minimizing personal liability.
- Avshalom 4y agoChun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo we both pardoned by Kim Young-sam but only at the end of his term it was not an incoming pardoning the outgoing thing. Lee Myung-bak was pardoned three president's later by Yoon Suk-yeol. Park Geun-hye was pardoned by her successor but not until 4 years after she'd been removed and several years of prison. Again not incoming pardoning the outgoing.
- alephnerd 3y agoGood catch. Edited my statement accordingly. But big picture, Turkey in 2023 is much closer to the era of Chun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo socially, economically, and politically, so the same kinds of worries about political violence holds.