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Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduc

Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. Our experience, however, is that consciousness is a constant. The ancient mystics, monks and people studying meditation and other similar practices have made some practical observations. These indicate that such lack of consciousness is actually quite common, we are just not very aware of it. It is also possible to experimentally understand this, although it is probably not possible to prove it scientifically. In other words, we do not possess meta-consciousness, consciousness about our consciousness. We just fill in the blanks, believe that we have been conscious. To become conscious more often and more deeply, you need to be able to control your attention and not lose it. The modern society does not help you in learning to control your attention, more to the contrary. So we are probably even less conscious than common people at the time that the ancient mystics lived. We should be less concerned about the consciousness of the AI, and more concerned about increasing our own consciousness.

JadoJodo 3y ago
> Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. I’m not sure that I would characterize this as a ‘lack of consciousness’. Of all the times that I have experienced this, it’s because I was thinking deeply about something else (not lacking consciousness), and simply assigned a subroutine to the driving.
- ljlolel 3y ago
  This is accurate and not sure why you were downvoted
- monktastic1 3y ago
  Have you ever been reading a book, only to discover that your eyes are still scanning the page while your mind was doing something else? There's a particular flavor of "oops" as a certain capacity comes back online. Informally, you might call it "knowing what's happening in your field of experience." It can also be called metacognition. Meditation can reduce or eliminate these "oops" moments. It also shows you just how much more common that state is than you realize (or would likely even believe, due to a particular trick the mind plays). It really does feel like one had been sleepwalking through one's life up until that point. One certainly feels "more conscious" afterward.
- kukkeliskuu 3y ago
  Firstly, this is a very very difficult topic. Some ancients books have tried to communicate the same ideas I am trying to convey here, but have been less than succesful. There appears to be deep psychological reasons why these things are difficult to grasp. So I hope you will forgive me if I cannot fully convince you about my experiences. Actually, I am not trying to prove anything to you (or others) or say how people should think about consciousness. I am just sharing my experiences and what I have found based on them, so others can try out and see for themselves, so perhaps we could learn together more about these. Neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinas did an interesting experiment on himself, and explained it in an interview on Science Network about his book "I of the vortex". He was able to consistently turn his foot inwards by placing a strong magnet at certain position on his head. Then he decided he would move his foot outwards when the magnet was applied on the same spot. When he did this, his foot still moved inwards. His experience was that "I changed my mind". He was able to repeat this experiment many times, and each time he felt he had changed his mind. So he could not distinguish between really changing his mind and his body doing something and his mind making up a post-hoc rationalization for his body doing it. This story, as well as my experience of trying to understand my consciousness experimentally has led me to become very suspicious about my own memory and thoughts about my conscious experiences. And consequentially, about other people's thoughts and memory about their conscious experiences as well. So my question to you is, how would you know that 100% of the times you have had a similar experience, you were 100% of the time 100% focused in deeply thinking about something?
denton-scratch 3y ago
> We should be less concerned about the consciousness of the AI Author's warning seems to be: 1. "Conscious" means you can feel things (have feelings) 2. "Conscious" means you can have intentions 3. --> A conscious AI could be hurt, take umbrage, and take measures to either protect itself or take revenge. Kids tear wings off insects; I can certainly imagine people inflicting pain on a machine on the principle that it's "just" a machine. Like, you're angry, you want to hurt someone (or kick the cat), but you refrain, because you're a decent person and don't do that kind of thing. Hurting a conscious, intelligent machine could have bad consequences. I don't happen to believe that consciousness is some kind of extended intelligence, so I don't believe that AI research is ever going to result in machine consciousness. I certainly don't know what consciousness is; but provisionally, I take the view that it's fundamental - that everything else depends on consciousness, not the other way round.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
taneq 3y ago
Our conscious experience is that we're conscious every time we're conscious of it. This is probably because we're not conscious of the times we're not conscious. :P That said I'm not sure that being actively conscious should really be a goal. Does it make us happier? More effective? For a lot of things I find myself trying to avoid becoming self-conscious because it interferes with my ability to do the thing I'm trying to do.
- kukkeliskuu 3y ago
  Yes, this kind of experience exists. However, in my experience, the "self-consciousness" is actually not the same "consciousness" I am talking about, but an experience related to a stage in learning. When you become a little bit aware that you cannot do something, it might temporarily make you anxious. Then, to overcome this anxiousness, you try to use your analytical mind to control your body (in case we are talking about some physical action), and it does not work really well, so you become even more anxious, creating a vicious loop. Analytical mind is actually not very good at micro-managing the body. You can test this by trying to do something very simple, such as lifting a spoon, and doing it with your analytical mind and without interference from your analytical mind. If you really try this experiment (thinking about it is not enough, you really need to do it yourself), you can learn about the limitations of your analytical mind by yourself. Your experience can also be expressed differently. What you have experienced as consciousness is actually your analytical mind, and by "avoiding becoming self-conscious" you are trying to let your body (or some other part of you, depending on what you try to do) to do it's thing without micro-management from the analytical mind. The book "Inner game of tennis" explains how olympic-level athletes (in this case tennis players) need to learn to let go of this control by the analytical mind in their practice. When you can let go, and you are aware of it, the end result is an experience of flow. For me, being in the flow state feels good, and I can do things that would not be possible otherwise (in my case in dancing). It is something I aim to experience more in my life. Does this make us efficient? You cannot talk about efficiency separate from your aim. For example, it may be time-efficient to eat all your meals at McDonald's, but the long-term consequences of that choice could make you less than efficient on some other aim you may have. Happiness is a difficult concept as well. I have experienced more happiness through increase of flow in my life. I would say that experiencing more flow is one of the ways to happiness. But depending on your definition of happiness, you may disagree with this.

JadoJodo 3y ago

> Most of us share the experience of having driven a car from A to B, without having any conscious recollection about the trip. From such experiences we can deduce that our level of consciousness is not constant, but it fluctuates. I’m not sure that I would characterize this as a ‘lack of consciousness’. Of all the times that I have experienced this, it’s because I was thinking deeply about something else (not lacking consciousness), and simply assigned a subroutine to the driving.

ljlolel 3y ago
This is accurate and not sure why you were downvoted
monktastic1 3y ago
Have you ever been reading a book, only to discover that your eyes are still scanning the page while your mind was doing something else? There's a particular flavor of "oops" as a certain capacity comes back online. Informally, you might call it "knowing what's happening in your field of experience." It can also be called metacognition. Meditation can reduce or eliminate these "oops" moments. It also shows you just how much more common that state is than you realize (or would likely even believe, due to a particular trick the mind plays). It really does feel like one had been sleepwalking through one's life up until that point. One certainly feels "more conscious" afterward.
kukkeliskuu 3y ago
Firstly, this is a very very difficult topic. Some ancients books have tried to communicate the same ideas I am trying to convey here, but have been less than succesful. There appears to be deep psychological reasons why these things are difficult to grasp. So I hope you will forgive me if I cannot fully convince you about my experiences. Actually, I am not trying to prove anything to you (or others) or say how people should think about consciousness. I am just sharing my experiences and what I have found based on them, so others can try out and see for themselves, so perhaps we could learn together more about these. Neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinas did an interesting experiment on himself, and explained it in an interview on Science Network about his book "I of the vortex". He was able to consistently turn his foot inwards by placing a strong magnet at certain position on his head. Then he decided he would move his foot outwards when the magnet was applied on the same spot. When he did this, his foot still moved inwards. His experience was that "I changed my mind". He was able to repeat this experiment many times, and each time he felt he had changed his mind. So he could not distinguish between really changing his mind and his body doing something and his mind making up a post-hoc rationalization for his body doing it. This story, as well as my experience of trying to understand my consciousness experimentally has led me to become very suspicious about my own memory and thoughts about my conscious experiences. And consequentially, about other people's thoughts and memory about their conscious experiences as well. So my question to you is, how would you know that 100% of the times you have had a similar experience, you were 100% of the time 100% focused in deeply thinking about something?

denton-scratch 3y ago

> We should be less concerned about the consciousness of the AI Author's warning seems to be: 1. "Conscious" means you can feel things (have feelings) 2. "Conscious" means you can have intentions 3. --> A conscious AI could be hurt, take umbrage, and take measures to either protect itself or take revenge. Kids tear wings off insects; I can certainly imagine people inflicting pain on a machine on the principle that it's "just" a machine. Like, you're angry, you want to hurt someone (or kick the cat), but you refrain, because you're a decent person and don't do that kind of thing. Hurting a conscious, intelligent machine could have bad consequences. I don't happen to believe that consciousness is some kind of extended intelligence, so I don't believe that AI research is ever going to result in machine consciousness. I certainly don't know what consciousness is; but provisionally, I take the view that it's fundamental - that everything else depends on consciousness, not the other way round.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

taneq 3y ago

Our conscious experience is that we're conscious every time we're conscious of it. This is probably because we're not conscious of the times we're not conscious. :P That said I'm not sure that being actively conscious should really be a goal. Does it make us happier? More effective? For a lot of things I find myself trying to avoid becoming self-conscious because it interferes with my ability to do the thing I'm trying to do.

kukkeliskuu 3y ago
Yes, this kind of experience exists. However, in my experience, the "self-consciousness" is actually not the same "consciousness" I am talking about, but an experience related to a stage in learning. When you become a little bit aware that you cannot do something, it might temporarily make you anxious. Then, to overcome this anxiousness, you try to use your analytical mind to control your body (in case we are talking about some physical action), and it does not work really well, so you become even more anxious, creating a vicious loop. Analytical mind is actually not very good at micro-managing the body. You can test this by trying to do something very simple, such as lifting a spoon, and doing it with your analytical mind and without interference from your analytical mind. If you really try this experiment (thinking about it is not enough, you really need to do it yourself), you can learn about the limitations of your analytical mind by yourself. Your experience can also be expressed differently. What you have experienced as consciousness is actually your analytical mind, and by "avoiding becoming self-conscious" you are trying to let your body (or some other part of you, depending on what you try to do) to do it's thing without micro-management from the analytical mind. The book "Inner game of tennis" explains how olympic-level athletes (in this case tennis players) need to learn to let go of this control by the analytical mind in their practice. When you can let go, and you are aware of it, the end result is an experience of flow. For me, being in the flow state feels good, and I can do things that would not be possible otherwise (in my case in dancing). It is something I aim to experience more in my life. Does this make us efficient? You cannot talk about efficiency separate from your aim. For example, it may be time-efficient to eat all your meals at McDonald's, but the long-term consequences of that choice could make you less than efficient on some other aim you may have. Happiness is a difficult concept as well. I have experienced more happiness through increase of flow in my life. I would say that experiencing more flow is one of the ways to happiness. But depending on your definition of happiness, you may disagree with this.