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I feel like this is also what evil people tell themselves. They need an internal explanation for the wondrous and beautiful goodwill and altruism in the world,

by ericb 3y ago

I feel like this is also what evil people tell themselves. They need an internal explanation for the wondrous and beautiful goodwill and altruism in the world, and if they project their selfish world-view out, the only explanation they can come up with is that it must be self-interested behavior, somehow. It's like the idea that some people want to make the world better is inconceivable to them, because they don't.

temac 3y ago
Virtue signaling is about telling the world how good you are. There is no practical difference between being altruistic intrinsically for others or subconsciously to feel good about yourself. We may even never be able to distinguish between the two. There is a practical difference between helping others and loudly bragging about it.
Lionga 3y ago
I feel like this is what people tell themselves that can't accept who they really are. They need an internal explanation for why their are so much more moral and better than the rest. It's like the idea that they are just made of the same atoms that just follow the laws of physics and have all the same neural pathways and are not some divine, good being is inconceivable to them.
- archon1410 3y ago
  the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron" - dril (https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312)
  - Lionga 3y ago
    The difference between good & bad things is whatever you say a good or a bad thing is. But it is and always will be an opinion and not a fact.
- jmfldn 3y ago
  It's ironic you should allude to religion in this, particularly as many religions literally speak of the inherent evil that afflicts most of mankind and which is so hard to overcome. Cf original sin. Now I don't believe that, and I'm not religious, but I'm just pointing out that your statement doesn't work. If anything, the average religious person has a much darker take on human nature. Personally I think that many humans care to varying degrees, but real advanced selfless concern for the suffering of other beings is quite rare.
- ericb 3y ago
  Have you ever helped someone without some connection to a reward? As a thought experiment, you are in a room with a deaf, blind dying person--they will soon be gone from this world. They are reaching for water you can see on their bedside, but can't quite reach it. Do you bother to cross the room to hand it to them if they will never "be aware of your virtue"? Why expend the energy? Compassion is real, for those who have it. And to be clear, my definition of evil isn't intended here as some religious appeal. In my view, we are all playing an iterated prisoner's dilemma with each other, and good is believing in a better world and collaborating, while evil is defecting and making everything worse for everyone.

by ericb 3y ago

temac 3y ago

Virtue signaling is about telling the world how good you are. There is no practical difference between being altruistic intrinsically for others or subconsciously to feel good about yourself. We may even never be able to distinguish between the two. There is a practical difference between helping others and loudly bragging about it.

Lionga 3y ago

I feel like this is what people tell themselves that can't accept who they really are. They need an internal explanation for why their are so much more moral and better than the rest. It's like the idea that they are just made of the same atoms that just follow the laws of physics and have all the same neural pathways and are not some divine, good being is inconceivable to them.

archon1410 3y ago
the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron" - dril (https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312)
- Lionga 3y ago
  The difference between good & bad things is whatever you say a good or a bad thing is. But it is and always will be an opinion and not a fact.
jmfldn 3y ago
It's ironic you should allude to religion in this, particularly as many religions literally speak of the inherent evil that afflicts most of mankind and which is so hard to overcome. Cf original sin. Now I don't believe that, and I'm not religious, but I'm just pointing out that your statement doesn't work. If anything, the average religious person has a much darker take on human nature. Personally I think that many humans care to varying degrees, but real advanced selfless concern for the suffering of other beings is quite rare.
ericb 3y ago
Have you ever helped someone without some connection to a reward? As a thought experiment, you are in a room with a deaf, blind dying person--they will soon be gone from this world. They are reaching for water you can see on their bedside, but can't quite reach it. Do you bother to cross the room to hand it to them if they will never "be aware of your virtue"? Why expend the energy? Compassion is real, for those who have it. And to be clear, my definition of evil isn't intended here as some religious appeal. In my view, we are all playing an iterated prisoner's dilemma with each other, and good is believing in a better world and collaborating, while evil is defecting and making everything worse for everyone.