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> Yes. On my computer. In my editor. That I am using…because I like ligatures, because they make my code easier to read. For me. Later in the submission, Butte

by grzm 3y ago

> Yes. On my computer. In my editor. That I am using…because I like ligatures, because they make my code easier to read. For me. Later in the submission, Butterick addresses this directly, and doesn't disagree: > “What do you mean, it’s not a matter of taste? I like using ligatures when I code.” Great! In so many ways, I don’t care what you do in private. Although I predict you will eventually burn yourself on this hot mess, my main concern is typography that faces other human beings. So if you’re preparing your code for others to read—whether on screen or on paper—skip the ligatures.

hakre 3y ago
That's a good advice, isn't it? Thanks for pointing to it. But it is interesting still, how many seem to read the text it feels to them touching their privates and need to make themselves vent off.
- grzm 3y ago
  > how many seem to read the text it feels to them touching their privates and need to make themselves vent off. Not dissimilar to those choosing to highlight the worst aspects of comments rather than addressing them in good faith. Please don't make things worse.
  - hakre 3y ago
    Pardon, then you may have misread along my comment, that was not ill intended, just seeing that the article polarizes.
- Macha 3y ago
  Is it really that surprising that a post written in a confrontational, argumentative style produces similar responses?
TonyStr 3y ago
Later, in the "by the way" section after the article. After an article that in no way suggests it's talking about printed and shared code exclusively. After paragraphs such as this > Bottom line: this isn’t a matter of taste. In programming code, every character in the file has a special semantic role to play. Therefore, any kind of “prettifying” that makes one character look like another—including ligatures—leads to a swamp of despair. If you don’t believe me, try it for 10 or 15 years. The submission reads very much like an attack on any use of ligatures in code. The comment in the end reads, to me, more like a resignation of responsibility over his claims.
- tptacek 3y ago
  It is an attack on using ligatures in code. It's not hiding that. That's the point of the article.
  - 1attice 3y ago
    It's not an "attack". It's an argument against. "Attack" implies some sort of animus directed against the recipient; e.g. an attack on unhoused people, etc. An attack implies violence. An argument, even one with strong language, can be about whether or not a tool is fit-for-purpose. This is allowed. This is discourse. Right now, politically, a lot of arguments are actually attacks (on specific groups of people) in disguise, and I sympathize with your confusion. But arguments do exist. Not every argument is an attack. I can't link to this book often enough: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29363252-conflict-is-not-abuse?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=o6dl7PwFOs&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29363252-conflict-is-not...
    - timsneath 3y ago
      You can attack an idea. I don't know why you think it assumes animus against the recipient.
      - 1attice 3y ago
        Yes, and you can also shoot, strangulate, or set an idea on fire. Metaphorically speaking. But metaphor is imprecision and unnecessary colour. Be clear and precise. Use specific language. This is admittedly prescriptive usage, but I am prescribing this antidote for an overheated era, full of overwrought language.
        akerl_ 3y ago
        This arbitrary restriction on language seems doubleplus ungood.
        3y ago
nxpnsv 3y ago
When I check someones your code and edit it, I get plain text - no ligatures, fonts, highlighting, themes, etc are included. I don't know what dev setup forces visual choices on coders, but that sounds like bad idea...
- grzm 3y ago
  > ... if you’re preparing your code for others to read—whether on screen or on paper—skip the ligatures. Here he's referring to code in books, slide decks, and during presentations, not for editing. Just below the section the above quote is pulled from, Butterick explains > One inspiration for this piece was the LaTeX crowd, who would routinely write me to insist their typography was infallible. And yet. I kept seeing LaTeX-prepared books that incorrectly substituted curly quotes for backticks.... “But code samples like these aren’t really ambiguous, because everyone knows that you don’t type the curly quotes.” ... But many of today’s programming languages (e.g., Racket) accept UTF-8 input.... So ambiguity is a real possibility. Same problem with ligatures.
  - nxpnsv 3y ago
    Hmm, maybe suboptimal for publishing. That said most publications i read have no code but beautifully rendered equations. I find these more efficient at getting the point across than code… but i guess mileage vary

by grzm 3y ago

hakre 3y ago

That's a good advice, isn't it? Thanks for pointing to it. But it is interesting still, how many seem to read the text it feels to them touching their privates and need to make themselves vent off.

grzm 3y ago
> how many seem to read the text it feels to them touching their privates and need to make themselves vent off. Not dissimilar to those choosing to highlight the worst aspects of comments rather than addressing them in good faith. Please don't make things worse.
- hakre 3y ago
  Pardon, then you may have misread along my comment, that was not ill intended, just seeing that the article polarizes.
Macha 3y ago
Is it really that surprising that a post written in a confrontational, argumentative style produces similar responses?

TonyStr 3y ago

Later, in the "by the way" section after the article. After an article that in no way suggests it's talking about printed and shared code exclusively. After paragraphs such as this > Bottom line: this isn’t a matter of taste. In programming code, every character in the file has a special semantic role to play. Therefore, any kind of “prettifying” that makes one character look like another—including ligatures—leads to a swamp of despair. If you don’t believe me, try it for 10 or 15 years. The submission reads very much like an attack on any use of ligatures in code. The comment in the end reads, to me, more like a resignation of responsibility over his claims.

tptacek 3y ago
It is an attack on using ligatures in code. It's not hiding that. That's the point of the article.
- 1attice 3y ago
  It's not an "attack". It's an argument against. "Attack" implies some sort of animus directed against the recipient; e.g. an attack on unhoused people, etc. An attack implies violence. An argument, even one with strong language, can be about whether or not a tool is fit-for-purpose. This is allowed. This is discourse. Right now, politically, a lot of arguments are actually attacks (on specific groups of people) in disguise, and I sympathize with your confusion. But arguments do exist. Not every argument is an attack. I can't link to this book often enough: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29363252-conflict-is-not-abuse?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=o6dl7PwFOs&rank=1 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29363252-conflict-is-not...
  - timsneath 3y ago
    You can attack an idea. I don't know why you think it assumes animus against the recipient.
    - 1attice 3y ago
      Yes, and you can also shoot, strangulate, or set an idea on fire. Metaphorically speaking. But metaphor is imprecision and unnecessary colour. Be clear and precise. Use specific language. This is admittedly prescriptive usage, but I am prescribing this antidote for an overheated era, full of overwrought language.
      - akerl_ 3y ago
        This arbitrary restriction on language seems doubleplus ungood.
        3y ago

nxpnsv 3y ago

When I check someones your code and edit it, I get plain text - no ligatures, fonts, highlighting, themes, etc are included. I don't know what dev setup forces visual choices on coders, but that sounds like bad idea...

grzm 3y ago
> ... if you’re preparing your code for others to read—whether on screen or on paper—skip the ligatures. Here he's referring to code in books, slide decks, and during presentations, not for editing. Just below the section the above quote is pulled from, Butterick explains > One inspiration for this piece was the LaTeX crowd, who would routinely write me to insist their typography was infallible. And yet. I kept seeing LaTeX-prepared books that incorrectly substituted curly quotes for backticks.... “But code samples like these aren’t really ambiguous, because everyone knows that you don’t type the curly quotes.” ... But many of today’s programming languages (e.g., Racket) accept UTF-8 input.... So ambiguity is a real possibility. Same problem with ligatures.
- nxpnsv 3y ago
  Hmm, maybe suboptimal for publishing. That said most publications i read have no code but beautifully rendered equations. I find these more efficient at getting the point across than code… but i guess mileage vary