3 ms·

If population control is part of the solution then maybe we can all get by with a lot less reduction in our consumption. It baffles me that this part of the sol

If population control is part of the solution then maybe we can all get by with a lot less reduction in our consumption. It baffles me that this part of the solution is never mentioned in these discussions.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Isn't that essentially saying "other people should die so I don't have to give up my luxuries"?
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  People won’t exist who might otherwise have existed. There is strong evidence that when women have agency, as well as access to education and contraceptives, the fertility rate plummets. Lean into providing those mechanisms.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    The problem with this logic is that it makes no sense with the current world population if what you want is to keep lavish western living standards for everyone. Because those living standards already require a completely unsustainable level of consumption just to sustain that level for the west alone. To get consumption to sustainable levels, slowing down growth isn't enough. You'd need to reduce the population drastically. And it's not like we have time to wait around several generations. Taken to its conclusion, the GP's idea can only work if genocide is perpetrated. So yes, improving education and women's rights are very important, and do slow down population growth. But while this helps, it doesn't preclude the need for the level of consumption in industrialised societies to go down drastically.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      > Taken to its conclusion, the GP's idea can only work if genocide is perpetrated. Or we collectively do nothing when hundreds of millions or billions of people die from outlier wet bulb temp heat and other climate change effects. Which is very likely to be the default path (not that I agree with this btw, making an observation that everyone is operating bau). I suppose you could call this genocide by inaction.
jgraettinger1 3y ago
Tell a person “have as many as you want” and they’ll have none. Tell them they can’t have one and they’ll raise a rebellion.
tut-urut-utut 3y ago
And now it’s Godwin time. Some movements were actually pretty effective in „population control“ in the past. If you want to „control population“ please start yourself and with your family. I for example don’t want to see any human population „controlled“ by anyone.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago

Isn't that essentially saying "other people should die so I don't have to give up my luxuries"?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
People won’t exist who might otherwise have existed. There is strong evidence that when women have agency, as well as access to education and contraceptives, the fertility rate plummets. Lean into providing those mechanisms.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  The problem with this logic is that it makes no sense with the current world population if what you want is to keep lavish western living standards for everyone. Because those living standards already require a completely unsustainable level of consumption just to sustain that level for the west alone. To get consumption to sustainable levels, slowing down growth isn't enough. You'd need to reduce the population drastically. And it's not like we have time to wait around several generations. Taken to its conclusion, the GP's idea can only work if genocide is perpetrated. So yes, improving education and women's rights are very important, and do slow down population growth. But while this helps, it doesn't preclude the need for the level of consumption in industrialised societies to go down drastically.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    > Taken to its conclusion, the GP's idea can only work if genocide is perpetrated. Or we collectively do nothing when hundreds of millions or billions of people die from outlier wet bulb temp heat and other climate change effects. Which is very likely to be the default path (not that I agree with this btw, making an observation that everyone is operating bau). I suppose you could call this genocide by inaction.

jgraettinger1 3y ago

Tell a person “have as many as you want” and they’ll have none. Tell them they can’t have one and they’ll raise a rebellion.

tut-urut-utut 3y ago

And now it’s Godwin time. Some movements were actually pretty effective in „population control“ in the past. If you want to „control population“ please start yourself and with your family. I for example don’t want to see any human population „controlled“ by anyone.