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I think I understand what you mean about farming. The toppings you buy at subway that are essentially water in some limp cell matrix bear little resemblance to

I think I understand what you mean about farming. The toppings you buy at subway that are essentially water in some limp cell matrix bear little resemblance to vegetables. But objectively, modern farming had been providing more and more for us from the neolithic onwards and is responsible for how so many of us can be fed. A more recent example of bait and switch would be Uber and Airbnb which started with some promise (cheaper, easier to use, more accountability) but once you add in all the chestertons fences that were part of the legacy industries they "disrupted" - safety, paying market wages, profitability, they revert back to the legacy system.

jancsika 3y ago
> The toppings you buy at subway that are essentially water in some limp cell matrix bear little resemblance to vegetables. How are these different from the vegetables produced by traditional farming? If I take someone who has always eaten the vegetables from traditional farming and switch them to Subway vegetables, what measurable change happens to that person?
- version_five 3y ago
  I have no idea about a measurable change. But I know that given the choice I would choose a flavorful tomato with bright color over the pale thing that you get at subway. My stereotype of traditional vegetables is smaller and tastier. Same as chickens, etc. Modern food is optimized for bulking up quickly. Thus my interpretation of the original "bait and switch" comment.
- MrVandemar 3y ago
  > How are these different from the vegetables produced by traditional farming? Oh, they are very different. As with most modern systems, and noted above, food grown on industrial scales are not optimised for the traditional qualities of nutrition or taste. This is capitalism: they are optimised for speed of growth, bulk, shelf-life, and whether they tolerate pesticides and herbicides. The latter is not only to reduce "weeds", but also so they can kill all the plants and harvest the product, rather than let the plant naturally die. They are also grown with enormous fossil-fuel inputs. Find someone who grows heritage vegetables, preferably organic, and taste the difference. Most "farms" these days are simply titanic open-air factories.
  - version_five 3y ago
    I got modded down for my upstream post too. I have to admit it's a bit surprising to see anti-heritage vegetable sentiments here (or really anywhere) but there you go.
  - jancsika 3y ago
    > Find someone who grows heritage vegetables, preferably organic, and taste the difference. The heritage vegetables are delicious. What is the nutritional difference between the delicious vegetables and the ones from Subway?
- tuatoru 3y ago
  > what measurable change happens to that person? Levels of micronutrients in their blood reduce. Iodine. Iron. Vitamin A. Copper. Zinc. Selenium. Cobalt. And more.

jancsika 3y ago

> The toppings you buy at subway that are essentially water in some limp cell matrix bear little resemblance to vegetables. How are these different from the vegetables produced by traditional farming? If I take someone who has always eaten the vegetables from traditional farming and switch them to Subway vegetables, what measurable change happens to that person?

version_five 3y ago
I have no idea about a measurable change. But I know that given the choice I would choose a flavorful tomato with bright color over the pale thing that you get at subway. My stereotype of traditional vegetables is smaller and tastier. Same as chickens, etc. Modern food is optimized for bulking up quickly. Thus my interpretation of the original "bait and switch" comment.
MrVandemar 3y ago
> How are these different from the vegetables produced by traditional farming? Oh, they are very different. As with most modern systems, and noted above, food grown on industrial scales are not optimised for the traditional qualities of nutrition or taste. This is capitalism: they are optimised for speed of growth, bulk, shelf-life, and whether they tolerate pesticides and herbicides. The latter is not only to reduce "weeds", but also so they can kill all the plants and harvest the product, rather than let the plant naturally die. They are also grown with enormous fossil-fuel inputs. Find someone who grows heritage vegetables, preferably organic, and taste the difference. Most "farms" these days are simply titanic open-air factories.
- version_five 3y ago
  I got modded down for my upstream post too. I have to admit it's a bit surprising to see anti-heritage vegetable sentiments here (or really anywhere) but there you go.
- jancsika 3y ago
  > Find someone who grows heritage vegetables, preferably organic, and taste the difference. The heritage vegetables are delicious. What is the nutritional difference between the delicious vegetables and the ones from Subway?
tuatoru 3y ago
> what measurable change happens to that person? Levels of micronutrients in their blood reduce. Iodine. Iron. Vitamin A. Copper. Zinc. Selenium. Cobalt. And more.