5 ms·

China has literal concentration camps and prisoner organ harvesting. I don't think your comparison means much.

by lordloki 3y ago

pySSK 3y ago
[flagged]
- carabiner 3y ago
  The US has very similar camps in the form of forced labor (i.e. slavery) by prisoners. These slaves have built products in the US that many of us have used, including clothes and office furniture. They make 63 cents per hour - make no mistake, they are slaves.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - loeg 3y ago
      > The US is a massive area of land with a variety of different regional geographic and cultural differences. You wouldn't go about describing Europe or an entire continent with equally broad strokes. The 13th amendment is federal and applies everywhere in the US. Not every state takes full advantage of prison slave labor, sure, but it is legal everywhere, and some do.
  - pb7 3y ago
    This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. I agree they should be paid more though.
    - cat_food 3y ago
      Several states still do not pay inmates, including Texas.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. Except its not; the 13th amendment allows, and several states have institutionalized, involuntary servitude of prisoners. > I agree they should be paid more though. In addition to not always being voluntary, it is also not always paid at all.
      - smileysteve 3y ago
        Louisiana voted against banning13th amendment slavery in 2022.
  - shjake 3y ago
    Yes because murdering people and harvesting their organs is very similar to using imprisoned people as a very cheap source of labor.
- simfree 3y ago
  Sending most of the citizens below retirement age of a province to concentration camps certainly seems like a normalized practice in China today. It was wrong when we did the same here in the USA with Japanese Americans (George Takei wrote about his time there) and we should not normalize this mass imprisonment without individual right to fair trial.
  - JCharante 3y ago
    Just for awareness, the US also had people of Japanese heritage sent from Latin America to the US to put them in camps. Peru sent 3000 Peruvians with Japanese heritage.
- Fezzik 3y ago
  The way the Chinese government talks about things tends to not be that accurate. The Uyghurs are not terrorists. They are an ethnic minority that is being terrorized and subjected to genocide by the Chinese government. Edit: spelling
- jimbob45 3y ago
  The source I remember was that China’s waiting lists for organ transplants were extremely low. If you have a refutation of that specific point, I would be very interested to read what you have to write.
  - kwere 3y ago
    and china is the least country of voluntary donations of organs in the world. According to the statistics, the deceased organ donation rate in China currently is only about 0.6/1,000,000 China citizens, one of the lowest in the world. The sad truth is that there are about 1 to 1.5 million people in China needing organ transplant every year and only 10,000 people can get a new organ successfully[0] [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820883/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820883/
- tomp 3y ago
  > openly anti-communist organization You say that like it's a bad thing. Most organisations worldwide, are openly anti-communist, except those that explicitly support dictatorship and human rights abuse. I guess that's a good thing.
  - psd1 3y ago
    My employer is headquartered in the US and has presence in about 30 countries. I don't recall them taking a position on communism. I don't understand why Americans still cling to this villain. It's 2023, the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.
    - kwere 3y ago
      there are still five openly communist countries left in the world: North Korea, Mainland China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos.
      - pedrosorio 3y ago
        And yet, the US seems quite happy to engage in partnership with at least one of those: https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship-celebrating-10-years-of-comprehensive-partnership-and-28-years-of-diplomatic-relations https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship... So communism clearly isn’t the issue.
- h11h 3y ago
  What exactly are you talking about regarding the "organ harvesting thing"? It's undeniable that it happened. In 2014 China promised to stop doing it. Here's an article from Chinese state media: > China's long-term dependence on executed prisoners as organ donors will end at the start of next year, according to a high-ranking official. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-12/05/content_19028782.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-12/05/content_190287... My understanding is the debates are over whether or not it still happens and to what extent political prisoners (particularly Falun Gong members) were victims.
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  They literally recorded doctors admitting to it and detailing where the organs come from. Just because China calls everything it dislikes “propaganda” doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

China has literal concentration camps and prisoner organ harvesting. I don't think your comparison means much.

pySSK 3y ago

[flagged]

carabiner 3y ago
The US has very similar camps in the form of forced labor (i.e. slavery) by prisoners. These slaves have built products in the US that many of us have used, including clothes and office furniture. They make 63 cents per hour - make no mistake, they are slaves.
- infamouscow 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - loeg 3y ago
    > The US is a massive area of land with a variety of different regional geographic and cultural differences. You wouldn't go about describing Europe or an entire continent with equally broad strokes. The 13th amendment is federal and applies everywhere in the US. Not every state takes full advantage of prison slave labor, sure, but it is legal everywhere, and some do.
- pb7 3y ago
  This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. I agree they should be paid more though.
  - cat_food 3y ago
    Several states still do not pay inmates, including Texas.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > This is voluntary work for people who have been convicted. Except its not; the 13th amendment allows, and several states have institutionalized, involuntary servitude of prisoners. > I agree they should be paid more though. In addition to not always being voluntary, it is also not always paid at all.
    - smileysteve 3y ago
      Louisiana voted against banning13th amendment slavery in 2022.
- shjake 3y ago
  Yes because murdering people and harvesting their organs is very similar to using imprisoned people as a very cheap source of labor.
simfree 3y ago
Sending most of the citizens below retirement age of a province to concentration camps certainly seems like a normalized practice in China today. It was wrong when we did the same here in the USA with Japanese Americans (George Takei wrote about his time there) and we should not normalize this mass imprisonment without individual right to fair trial.
- JCharante 3y ago
  Just for awareness, the US also had people of Japanese heritage sent from Latin America to the US to put them in camps. Peru sent 3000 Peruvians with Japanese heritage.
Fezzik 3y ago
The way the Chinese government talks about things tends to not be that accurate. The Uyghurs are not terrorists. They are an ethnic minority that is being terrorized and subjected to genocide by the Chinese government. Edit: spelling
jimbob45 3y ago
The source I remember was that China’s waiting lists for organ transplants were extremely low. If you have a refutation of that specific point, I would be very interested to read what you have to write.
- kwere 3y ago
  and china is the least country of voluntary donations of organs in the world. According to the statistics, the deceased organ donation rate in China currently is only about 0.6/1,000,000 China citizens, one of the lowest in the world. The sad truth is that there are about 1 to 1.5 million people in China needing organ transplant every year and only 10,000 people can get a new organ successfully[0] [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820883/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820883/
tomp 3y ago
> openly anti-communist organization You say that like it's a bad thing. Most organisations worldwide, are openly anti-communist, except those that explicitly support dictatorship and human rights abuse. I guess that's a good thing.
- psd1 3y ago
  My employer is headquartered in the US and has presence in about 30 countries. I don't recall them taking a position on communism. I don't understand why Americans still cling to this villain. It's 2023, the USSR collapsed 30 years ago.
  - kwere 3y ago
    there are still five openly communist countries left in the world: North Korea, Mainland China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos.
    - pedrosorio 3y ago
      And yet, the US seems quite happy to engage in partnership with at least one of those: https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship-celebrating-10-years-of-comprehensive-partnership-and-28-years-of-diplomatic-relations https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-vietnam-relationship... So communism clearly isn’t the issue.
h11h 3y ago
What exactly are you talking about regarding the "organ harvesting thing"? It's undeniable that it happened. In 2014 China promised to stop doing it. Here's an article from Chinese state media: > China's long-term dependence on executed prisoners as organ donors will end at the start of next year, according to a high-ranking official. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-12/05/content_19028782.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-12/05/content_190287... My understanding is the debates are over whether or not it still happens and to what extent political prisoners (particularly Falun Gong members) were victims.
throwaway2990 3y ago
They literally recorded doctors admitting to it and detailing where the organs come from. Just because China calls everything it dislikes “propaganda” doesn’t mean it isn’t true.