5 ms·

No it's completely ridiculous that police think this is a car manufacturer issue. This is a failure of the police

hoofhearted 3y ago
It’s the only car manufacturer in the city with this problem, how is it the police’s fault? And P.S. the police in the city have been handing out steering wheel locks and educating affected owners, so I believe you are misinformed.
- stickfigure 3y ago
  "You left your house unlocked? It's your fault" "You dressed like that? It's your fault"
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    Sorry, just to get this clear, you are likening an argument over a manufacturer creating defective products with arguments that might come from a rapist's defense attorney?
    - Chris2048 3y ago
      The argument isn't comparing the manufacturers liability, but that of the people choosing to steal the cars in the first place - why is it relevant how easy the cars are to steal?
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        Because human nature is a bit more complex than "car thief or not."
        recursive 3y ago
        Yeah, there's also "car thief, but only if it's easy and convenient".
        Chris2048 3y ago
        Is it? Are there some kind of quasi car thieves?
    - jyrkesh 3y ago
      If I buy a front door lock that has a systemic manufacturing problem and someone breaks into my house, I might want to sue the manufacturer. But if someone breaks into my house--regardless of whether it was unlocked, the lock was defective, or they broke a window--and the police are negligent or incompetent in investigating or prosecuting the perpetrators, in what world is that a) not the police's fault? and b) an opportunity for the _police_ to sue the _manufacturer_? If I start a cultural movement to get rid of front door locks and it gains traction, and then B&Es spike, can the police sue _me_ too?
      - plagiarist 3y ago
        If you make a lock that is recognizable and easily broken to the extent that B&Es double nationwide, I don't see a problem with cities suing you over it. I don't know why you want to try and link the idea of a cultural movement? There's very clearly a difference between a defective product and a deliberate decision.
    - fib739mnsi 3y ago
      [dead]
    - horns4lyfe 3y ago
      Yes, they’re the same.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    If your house does not have a lock and everyone knows it then yea, that's your fault.
- xdennis 3y ago
  It's the government's fault for allowing criminals to run loose. It's their job to deal with criminals regardless of how capable the victims are to protect themselves. When you see an Asian granny being beaten up you don't sue her for being so easy to beat up.
- horns4lyfe 3y ago
  Does Korea have a major car theft issue?
typeofhuman 3y ago
Not the police. It's a failure of the courts. Prosecutors are simply not charging or reducing charges for these offenders. The police routinely arrest the same people over and over again - including for gun charges! But the courts let them out. Case in point. A couple of teens stole a car, smashed it into another car, killed a 6mo old and put his mother in the hospital. The charges? Trespassing.
- c8formal 3y ago
  It would help your point to provide a source
  - Georgelemental 3y ago
    Seems to be Chicago, not Baltimore: https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/teens-charged-with-misdemeanor-in-stolen-vehicle-crash-that-killed-6-month-old/ https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/teens-charged-with-misde...
Whinner 3y ago
I don't think you realize how easy it is to steal these cars. Look up a few videos. You rip off the plastic on the steering column, pry out the ignition cylinder and then use the A end of a usb cable to turn the exposed nub to start the car. Under 30 seconds. While there are other issues going on, this is gross negligence on Kia/Hyundai to not use an immobilizer.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  Cars have been this easy to steal forever. Thieves generally take your car in under 30 seconds regardless. This particular vulnerability was just one of the first to get fully documented and distributed to everybody and popularized by an algorithm.
  - doodlesdev 3y ago
    What I understand from this specific case these models don't have an engine immobilizer AND it's very easy to turn on the ignition using a USB cable. If I understood it correctly this is easier than stealing a car in the 80s, you don't even have to smash a window, it's that bad. The United States is an exception to the rule being the only first world country that I know of to not mandate engine immobilizers (I'm sure someone will be able to point an exception, but overall these are mandatory in a lot of countries for decades already).
    - jaclaz 3y ago
      It is exactly how stealing a car in the 80's was. You need to access the vehicle (if you are good by opening the door with a lockpick or with some other non-damaging trick, otherwise breaking a window), then you force the ignition block, removing the lock cylinder, then you use something to turn the ignition on. In the '80's you would have probably used a screwdriver, as what remained below the removed lock cylinder would have been a slot, on these particular models you could use a pair of thin nosed pliers but a USB A connector is coincidentally just the right size for the "tab" that has to be turned.
- bluescrn 3y ago

It’s the only car manufacturer in the city with this problem, how is it the police’s fault? And P.S. the police in the city have been handing out steering wheel locks and educating affected owners, so I believe you are misinformed.

stickfigure 3y ago
"You left your house unlocked? It's your fault" "You dressed like that? It's your fault"
- plagiarist 3y ago
  Sorry, just to get this clear, you are likening an argument over a manufacturer creating defective products with arguments that might come from a rapist's defense attorney?
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    The argument isn't comparing the manufacturers liability, but that of the people choosing to steal the cars in the first place - why is it relevant how easy the cars are to steal?
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      Because human nature is a bit more complex than "car thief or not."
      - recursive 3y ago
        Yeah, there's also "car thief, but only if it's easy and convenient".
      - Chris2048 3y ago
        Is it? Are there some kind of quasi car thieves?
  - jyrkesh 3y ago
    If I buy a front door lock that has a systemic manufacturing problem and someone breaks into my house, I might want to sue the manufacturer. But if someone breaks into my house--regardless of whether it was unlocked, the lock was defective, or they broke a window--and the police are negligent or incompetent in investigating or prosecuting the perpetrators, in what world is that a) not the police's fault? and b) an opportunity for the _police_ to sue the _manufacturer_? If I start a cultural movement to get rid of front door locks and it gains traction, and then B&Es spike, can the police sue _me_ too?
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      If you make a lock that is recognizable and easily broken to the extent that B&Es double nationwide, I don't see a problem with cities suing you over it. I don't know why you want to try and link the idea of a cultural movement? There's very clearly a difference between a defective product and a deliberate decision.
  - fib739mnsi 3y ago
    [dead]
  - horns4lyfe 3y ago
    Yes, they’re the same.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  If your house does not have a lock and everyone knows it then yea, that's your fault.
xdennis 3y ago
It's the government's fault for allowing criminals to run loose. It's their job to deal with criminals regardless of how capable the victims are to protect themselves. When you see an Asian granny being beaten up you don't sue her for being so easy to beat up.
horns4lyfe 3y ago
Does Korea have a major car theft issue?

typeofhuman 3y ago

Not the police. It's a failure of the courts. Prosecutors are simply not charging or reducing charges for these offenders. The police routinely arrest the same people over and over again - including for gun charges! But the courts let them out. Case in point. A couple of teens stole a car, smashed it into another car, killed a 6mo old and put his mother in the hospital. The charges? Trespassing.

c8formal 3y ago
It would help your point to provide a source
- Georgelemental 3y ago
  Seems to be Chicago, not Baltimore: https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/teens-charged-with-misdemeanor-in-stolen-vehicle-crash-that-killed-6-month-old/ https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/teens-charged-with-misde...

Whinner 3y ago

I don't think you realize how easy it is to steal these cars. Look up a few videos. You rip off the plastic on the steering column, pry out the ignition cylinder and then use the A end of a usb cable to turn the exposed nub to start the car. Under 30 seconds. While there are other issues going on, this is gross negligence on Kia/Hyundai to not use an immobilizer.

olyjohn 3y ago
Cars have been this easy to steal forever. Thieves generally take your car in under 30 seconds regardless. This particular vulnerability was just one of the first to get fully documented and distributed to everybody and popularized by an algorithm.
- doodlesdev 3y ago
  What I understand from this specific case these models don't have an engine immobilizer AND it's very easy to turn on the ignition using a USB cable. If I understood it correctly this is easier than stealing a car in the 80s, you don't even have to smash a window, it's that bad. The United States is an exception to the rule being the only first world country that I know of to not mandate engine immobilizers (I'm sure someone will be able to point an exception, but overall these are mandatory in a lot of countries for decades already).
  - jaclaz 3y ago
    It is exactly how stealing a car in the 80's was. You need to access the vehicle (if you are good by opening the door with a lockpick or with some other non-damaging trick, otherwise breaking a window), then you force the ignition block, removing the lock cylinder, then you use something to turn the ignition on. In the '80's you would have probably used a screwdriver, as what remained below the removed lock cylinder would have been a slot, on these particular models you could use a pair of thin nosed pliers but a USB A connector is coincidentally just the right size for the "tab" that has to be turned.
bluescrn 3y ago