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The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and lucki
by local_crmdgeon 3y ago
The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC.
Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday
- hoofhearted 3y agoIt’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it? The city is suing to recover the money they spent on all the police efforts expended because Kia cut corners to reduce costs.
- alphanullmeric 3y ago[flagged]
- macinjosh 3y agoSchwinn does nothing to stop bicycle thefts. Let’s sue them too!
- hoofhearted 3y agoApples to oranges lol
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoHow? Bikes are easier to steal and sell, and we don't see them being sued. The logic is the same.
- op00to 3y agoIf there were a bicycle manufacturer that knowingly made its bikes easier to steal and sell, AND those bicycles when stolen were linked to numerous horrific collisions resulting in death and major injury of innocent parties, then there might be a comparison.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y agoI don't know, in theory you could totally argue a bike could make it impossible to pedal without a key (the tech certainly exists). Your and at the end is really just building a straw man, it's not what's being discussed here.
- op00to 3y agoWho's building a straw man? There's plenty of examples of exactly the scenario I mentioned happening. Deadly Crash Brings New Attention To Viral 'Kia Challenge' Trend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1laqHpw7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1laqHpw7A Robbins police: 3 teens in stolen Kia arrested after 71-year-old man dies in crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_QeFdPtus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC_QeFdPtus Teen killed, suspect on the run after stolen car crashes on Roosevelt Boulevard https://www.fox29.com/news/police-stolen-kia-involved-deadly-crash-roosevelt-boulevard-suspect-on-the-run https://www.fox29.com/news/police-stolen-kia-involved-deadly...
- ApolloFortyNine 3y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You simply switched to an argument you could 'win' despite no one else actually bringing it up or refuting it.
- op00to 3y agoI was giving an alternative analogy that would be closer to the situation. Only you may present analogies?
- plagiarist 3y agoIf a Schwinn-branded bicycle lock is so easily broken that the majority of thefts are from opening those locks, why not?
- Natsu 3y agoThere will always be a most popular car to steal as long as there are car thefts. Maybe the problem is the thieves?
- plagiarist 3y agoIf it were possible for two problems to exist at the same time, I'd say one problem is a product defect reducing the barrier of entry so low that car theft is accessible to bored teenagers. But of course you are right, only one problem can ever exist and the problem is car thieves.
- fib739mnsi 3y ago[dead]
- Natsu 3y agoThis just kind of ignores how one of those things wouldn't even be a problem without the other.
- plagiarist 3y agoTrue, if the locks were perfect then nobody would be stealing cars.
- HPsquared 3y agoThey would first steal the keys, then the cars. That's actually more dangerous as it involves robbery or burglary. In a way it's better that the cars are easy to steal. Similarly, in bad areas some people leave their cars unlocked so that instead of breaking a window to rummage around inside, thieves can simply open the door.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- peoplearepeople 3y agoNo it's completely ridiculous that police think this is a car manufacturer issue. This is a failure of the police
- hoofhearted 3y agoIt’s the only car manufacturer in the city with this problem, how is it the police’s fault? And P.S. the police in the city have been handing out steering wheel locks and educating affected owners, so I believe you are misinformed.
- stickfigure 3y ago"You left your house unlocked? It's your fault" "You dressed like that? It's your fault"
- plagiarist 3y agoSorry, just to get this clear, you are likening an argument over a manufacturer creating defective products with arguments that might come from a rapist's defense attorney?
- Chris2048 3y agoThe argument isn't comparing the manufacturers liability, but that of the people choosing to steal the cars in the first place - why is it relevant how easy the cars are to steal?
- plagiarist 3y agoBecause human nature is a bit more complex than "car thief or not."
- recursive 3y agoYeah, there's also "car thief, but only if it's easy and convenient".
- Zpalmtree 3y agoDo you think Kia's cut corners are causing a theft spree in Korea?
- emodendroket 3y agoI feel that this comment section is more a place for people to vent their feelings about crime freeform than an opportunity to actually consider the facts at hand.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y agoAs someone currently in Japan, still a bit shocked how it's actually possible to leave your bike unlocked in a major city and expect to see it the next day, I do find it rediculous to blame the manufacturer for crime. Like what's next, suing a lock manufacturer for being too easy to pick (you can literally look up how to pick 99% of locks on YouTube).
- hoofhearted 3y agoEveryone here keeps failing to mention the part where Kia didn’t care about the customers who complained, but instead extorted people out of another $500 to $1,000 to resolve the issue for them. People have also failed to mention the part where insurers are dropping people with Kia Souls because they are too high risk.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y agoSeemingly if you read deep enough in the features for the car, it would be described there. If they lied, that's another issue entirely. It's totally fair for absolutely no one in the US to buy from KIA again. But if they were following the law by omitting ignition locking (maybe under some misguided notion that the US isn't as crime ridden as it is). There's some countries and still some parts of the US where you could realistically leave the cars in the ignition for weeks and the car wouldn't be stolen. This is nothing but a symptom of a larger issue.
- quickthrowman 3y ago> Like what's next, suing a lock manufacturer for being too easy to pick (you can literally look up how to pick 99% of locks on YouTube). This already happened almost 20 years ago in the United States. Ingersoll Rand was sued when it was shown that their Kryptonite locks could be opened with a Bic pen. Ingersoll Rand ended up settling. [0] I will grant that actual owners of the easily picked bike lock have obvious grounds to sue, whereas in the case of municipalities suing Hyundai due to theft problems, showing that the municipality is an injured party with standing to sue Hyundai isn’t as clear. [0] https://www.reallaw.us/2007/04/25/class_action_defense_casesrose/ https://www.reallaw.us/2007/04/25/class_action_defense_cases...
- user3939382 3y agoIf you have to garnish your point with jokes and insults maybe that reveals you feel insecure that it can stand on its own.
- tomrod 3y agoI flew back from Baltimore yesterday. It's a great town. It's far, far from a failed city. I've been to failed cities. Baltimore isn't it. Are there things that could be improved? Sure. Roll up them sleeves.
- IceHegel 3y ago[flagged]
- tomrod 3y agoThat which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. I was there yesterday, my evidence is my experiences and memories. My judgement: not a failed city. Do you have evidence to the contrary you feel is strong enough to prove your currently unproven claim?
- Georgelemental 3y agoYou haven't seen much of the city, then. I live not far away, and functional cities do not have streets that look like what many of Baltimore's streets look like. And they don't have public schools were not a single student, out of hundreds, is meeting the minimum standards of proficiency
- tomrod 3y ago> functional cities do not have streets that look like what many of Baltimore's streets look like You may be experiencing a bit of proximity bias. Roads all over the north east are torn up. I'd argue the school district issue can be fixed, but it will take funding.
- George83728 3y agoHe's obviously not talking about the state of the road surface. Anybody who's spent much time in Baltimore, not just in the tourist areas, knows what I mean.
- hotpotamus 3y agoI've found that the people who complain most loudly about crime also tend to take great offense to the idea of government trying "to change the behavior of the population". It seems that this is viewed as an encroachment on freedoms.
- rocket_surgeron 3y ago[flagged]
- o1y32 3y agoBack in those days crime rate was higher in every big city. Not sure what your point is.
- rocket_surgeron 3y ago>I'm fucking sick of dumb motherfuckers saying a microscopically-minuscule annual statistical blip is SHIT GOING TO HELL. >Things are just about as good as they've ever been in the history of the United States of America. Baltimore, too. >Turn off the Fox News.