3 ms·

That looks a lot like satire but I can’t quite tell. So, to clarify: if someone is clearly a violent criminal, are you really saying we should feel bad for the

That looks a lot like satire but I can’t quite tell. So, to clarify: if someone is clearly a violent criminal, are you really saying we should feel bad for them and assume they are a victim of “the system”? Do we drop charges? What’s the actionable plan for reducing violent crime?

93po 3y ago
> are you really saying we should feel bad for them and assume they are a victim of “the system”? Yes, absolutely. 100%. We should feel bad for people who find themselves in circumstances and life experiences that have driven them to violence. We should feel bad for sociopaths who inflict violence because the life and experience of a sociopath is objectively a sad thing. We should feel bad for non-sociopaths who were driven to desperation and extremes due to a lack of healthy coping mechanisms for stress and anger or anything else. > Do we drop charges? What’s the actionable plan for reducing violent crime? My comment isn't suggesting that dropping charges is going to fix the problem - it's the opposite. It's that we need a system of accountability that is a net-positive for society. Incarceration as-is in the US worsens the problem severely. It needs reform to be a place of actual rehabilitation and many people who need rehabilitation due to violent offenses absolutely need to be forced into doing so. But it needs to not be at the expense of their families, it needs to not further generational harm, and it needs to not harm the people being incarcerated. Harm for harm is a fucked up concept that doesn't help anyone except shallow people who crave a sense of justice, who are themselves inflicting violence too. People should leave prison in a better position than when they entered (in terms of dealing with their life better and in more healthy ways) and the opposite is happening. We're actively harming peaceful society with prisons today.
kevviiinn 3y ago
How about fixing the system. Why do people have such a tiny, narrow view of life?
- akhosravian 3y ago
  What does that mean, specifically? What policy changes need to be enacted to fix the system, and how do we verify they worked?
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    Expand social safety nets including single payer healthcare and remove laws targeting victimless crimes such as drug possession
    - Manuel_D 3y ago
      The comment anthony responded to specifically referred to violent crimes.
      - kevviiinn 3y ago
        Again, these things exist as part of the same system. If drugs are not illegal then drug business wouldn't be associated with gang violence. That's only one facet. This is why I said what I said about fixing the system
Kim_Bruning 3y ago
That approach is obviously equally unproductive. The approach is to try to reform them. Get them psychiatric help if that's what's needed. Put them in a prison that doesn't just punish them, but also teaches them how to be useful members of society. On the other end, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Well before that point, make sure everyone has equal opportunities while growing up. Ensure all citizens get taught how to be responsible with money and how to make intelligent life decisions in school. This helps a lot by itself. Despite the above, some people may still fail, due to bad luck or due to actually not being great students. For these, institute a "poverty floor" below which no one may fall. People who are not desperately poor are less likely to commit crimes. Of course, yes some people are lazy. That's unfortunate. Lazy people should still get some money, for the simple reason that it's a lot cheaper than dealing with criminals and crime. Obviously we shouldn't give them too much, since then they stay lazy and/or it just drains our coffers dry. Worse, some people are just plain bad. That's when you put them in prison. But even there you can attempt to reform them. Those who don't reform stay in prison or get rearrested soon enough. Those who do reform can get out and have a second chance. If you think all the above is hypothetical, it's not. Many western countries apply (at least some subset of) the above policies. This is a of course a very short summary of a very large and nuanced topic.

93po 3y ago

> are you really saying we should feel bad for them and assume they are a victim of “the system”? Yes, absolutely. 100%. We should feel bad for people who find themselves in circumstances and life experiences that have driven them to violence. We should feel bad for sociopaths who inflict violence because the life and experience of a sociopath is objectively a sad thing. We should feel bad for non-sociopaths who were driven to desperation and extremes due to a lack of healthy coping mechanisms for stress and anger or anything else. > Do we drop charges? What’s the actionable plan for reducing violent crime? My comment isn't suggesting that dropping charges is going to fix the problem - it's the opposite. It's that we need a system of accountability that is a net-positive for society. Incarceration as-is in the US worsens the problem severely. It needs reform to be a place of actual rehabilitation and many people who need rehabilitation due to violent offenses absolutely need to be forced into doing so. But it needs to not be at the expense of their families, it needs to not further generational harm, and it needs to not harm the people being incarcerated. Harm for harm is a fucked up concept that doesn't help anyone except shallow people who crave a sense of justice, who are themselves inflicting violence too. People should leave prison in a better position than when they entered (in terms of dealing with their life better and in more healthy ways) and the opposite is happening. We're actively harming peaceful society with prisons today.

kevviiinn 3y ago

How about fixing the system. Why do people have such a tiny, narrow view of life?

akhosravian 3y ago
What does that mean, specifically? What policy changes need to be enacted to fix the system, and how do we verify they worked?
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  Expand social safety nets including single payer healthcare and remove laws targeting victimless crimes such as drug possession
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    The comment anthony responded to specifically referred to violent crimes.
    - kevviiinn 3y ago
      Again, these things exist as part of the same system. If drugs are not illegal then drug business wouldn't be associated with gang violence. That's only one facet. This is why I said what I said about fixing the system

Kim_Bruning 3y ago

That approach is obviously equally unproductive. The approach is to try to reform them. Get them psychiatric help if that's what's needed. Put them in a prison that doesn't just punish them, but also teaches them how to be useful members of society. On the other end, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Well before that point, make sure everyone has equal opportunities while growing up. Ensure all citizens get taught how to be responsible with money and how to make intelligent life decisions in school. This helps a lot by itself. Despite the above, some people may still fail, due to bad luck or due to actually not being great students. For these, institute a "poverty floor" below which no one may fall. People who are not desperately poor are less likely to commit crimes. Of course, yes some people are lazy. That's unfortunate. Lazy people should still get some money, for the simple reason that it's a lot cheaper than dealing with criminals and crime. Obviously we shouldn't give them too much, since then they stay lazy and/or it just drains our coffers dry. Worse, some people are just plain bad. That's when you put them in prison. But even there you can attempt to reform them. Those who don't reform stay in prison or get rearrested soon enough. Those who do reform can get out and have a second chance. If you think all the above is hypothetical, it's not. Many western countries apply (at least some subset of) the above policies. This is a of course a very short summary of a very large and nuanced topic.