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Both should suffer serious consequences IMO. Boeing more so.
by jjallen 3y ago
Both should suffer serious consequences IMO. Boeing more so.
- akudha 3y agoYes, but 20 years for this dude is a bit excessive, no? Especially when nobody was killed or injured?
- wartijn_ 3y agoThe 20 years is not for crashing his plane, but for "one count of destruction and concealment with the intent to obstruct a federal investigation"
- jstanley 3y ago[flagged]
- eppp 3y agoWe all are. Pests like this are a drain on our entire government and society. How many hours have been wasted on this stupid stunt that was entirely his doing for no reason at all. He then tried to cover it up and lied about it. He wasted our time this morning reading about it again because he is a selfish liar.
- byyyy 3y agoHe's asking about victims that were slaughtered. Your "time wasted" is not significant at all. Perhaps I should be sent to jail for wasting your time with this reply.
- jameshart 3y agoyou can’t have rules where it’s okay to break them if nobody gets hurt. You can’t have investigative agencies where it’s okay to lie and obstruct them so long as there was no harm done. If you skip the penalties in a case like this, you encourage people to do the very things your regulations exist to prevent if they think they it probably won’t harm anyone. You’re not allowed to deliberately crash a plane without telling the FAA. You’re certainly not allowed to do it into random public land. You’re not allowed to send a plane out of control deliberately. Those are incredibly dangerous things to do. If you do those things and are lucky enough not to start a wildfire or kill anyone then there still have to be consequences. And if you try to avoid those consequences then that needs to be punished too.
- byyyy 3y agoA wild fire has a slim chance of happening and so does a death of a bystander when you crash a plane into unpopulated forest. The danger is so minimal here that what he did is clearly will not lead to accidental injury or deaths of others. It's Just stupid, like a person who road rages and rams into a parked car, unoccupied car. The consequences here should be a fine and loss of pilots license. Jail time isn't even a discussion here.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kayfox 3y agoI don't know if you haven't noticed, but California has been having massive wildfires in the same area for years now.
- byyyy 3y agoThis idea that crashed cars or small planes explode in a ball of fire is from Hollywood. When a car or small plane crashes it just crumbles into hunks of metal debris. It has no relationship to the concept of fire starting. Every action done here is completely orthogonal to fire risk and completely independent of the fire risk of the region. Under your logic Making an illegal campfire is much much more of a crime here. And this logic makes more sense to me.
- jameshart 3y agohttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/plane-fires-crashes-deaths/16530225/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/plane-... https://www.skybrary.aero/articles/light-aircraft-post-crash-fires https://www.skybrary.aero/articles/light-aircraft-post-crash...
- byyyy 3y agoOnly a ratio of 0.04 of accidents resulted in a post-impact fire. Again to reiterate my point. It's rare.
- gabereiser 3y agoThe government. He’s charged with obstructing a federal investigation et al. and if he gets max sentence he’ll spend maybe 7 in jail.
- intrasight 3y agoJustice is the victim in an obstruction of justice case.
- byyyy 3y ago[flagged]
- thisGuyFlicks 3y agoAll of us that pay taxes. All of us that would get higher insurance premiums (if he got away with it) as a result of his stunt.
- frumper 3y agoIf he makes an insurance claim, that sounds like insurance fraud. That is a very real crime with a victim. Did that happen and why isn't that the headline?
- hef19898 3y agoYou do not consent, do you?
- goda90 3y agoIf you intentionally light a building on fire with the potential to kill a bunch of people and destroy a bunch of property, how much lesser should the arson sentence be if someone puts the fire out quickly, preventing loss of life? A plane crash can cause a wildfire.
- byyyy 3y agoNo this is Hollywood making you think that. Car crashes and small plane crashes result in metal debris, not exploding balls of fire like Hollywood likes to depict. In general the concept of starting a fire and a crashing small plane are orthogonal concepts. What happened with that plane is not arson at all.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoYou seem pretty hung up on this "exploding balls of fire" thing while ignoring that he's crashing a gas-powered vehicle, likely rupturing its fuel tanks and supply lines in close proximity to hot exhaust metal. You don't need "exploding balls of fire" to create a disaster.
- byyyy 3y agoI'm hung up on it because it's true. When's the last time you seen a car light up on fire during an accident? Never because the chances of it happening are basically negligible.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoEarly March, I think? Sometime this year, anyway.
- byyyy 3y agoOk, but you get my point. It's rare. Most people haven't seen this ever.
- 3y ago
- ufmace 3y agoHe didn't get 20 years, that's just the maximum permitted penalty for the crime he committed. The article title cites it as clickbait. It's rather irritating. The law was made with a flexible range of punishments to permit the judge of any particular case to use discretion when determining an appropriate punishment. The maximum permitted is thus rather high. So now every article written about the subject lazily cites "up to 20 years", and thus everyone reading those articles gets the impression that he's actually likely to get 20 years for this incident.
- byyyy 3y agoThe maximum permitted should be zero years. Any jail time for this dumb stunt is overboard. There just needs to be a huge ass fine and revocation of pilots license. I point my car at a wall and drive into it on purpose for views... And suddenly that's a possibility of jail time? That's crazy. There needs to be a minimum number of permitted years when death is involved with clear negligence. Sadly there isn't any our court systems use max permitted years to pick and choose who they can punish. Dumb kid who crashes his plane on purpose versus safety inspector who Actually killed hundreds of people? There is a clear disconnect here.
- ngcc_hk 3y agoThere could be people … can start a fire … your wall will not. Also whilst there can be mitigated circumstance you cannot argued for 0 max. There is a crime, there could be danger … 0 max meant anyone officially can do this without consequences?
- byyyy 3y agoNo thats just Hollywood. In general a crashed car or small plane crumbles on impact. It doesn't explode in a ball of fire. A forest fire is very unlikely here. When you point your car at a wall and drive into that wall you ALSO cannot argue for 0 max danger of death for an innocent bystander. But the probability of a person dying is so low we know there is no danger for murder or death at all. It's just really stupid. Of course there needs to be consequences. A loss of pilots license and a huge ass fine. Jail time is crazy. You know how jail will ruin a person's entire life right? Even a month of jail time is in certain ways hangs on your record like a life sentence. It's too much.
- jjallen 3y agoThat’s the maximum. He’ll get something less than that. He could have killed lots of people in a bad enough fire.
- byyyy 3y agoNah. A fire is unlikely here.
- shagie 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Wilderness#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Rafael_Wilderness#Climate > Rain is extremely rare in the summer, and dry lightning from the occasional thunderstorms can start fires. https://lpfw.org/san-rafael-wilderness-50-years-of-preserving-santa-barbaras-backcountry/ https://lpfw.org/san-rafael-wilderness-50-years-of-preservin... > Wildfire frequency is an increasing concern in the San Rafael Wilderness. Over the past fifty years, three wildfires have together burned nearly the entire wilderness area, beginning with the 1966 Wellman Fire, the 1993 Marre Fire, the 2007 Zaca Fire, and the 2009 La Brea Fire. Overly-frequent fire in chaparral can permanently alter the ecosystem, depleting the seed bank and making it prone to invasions of non-native weeds.
- byyyy 3y agoGood sources. But a crashed small plane is unlikely to start a fire anymore than a car accident will go up in flames (basically never happens). Starting a fire or crashing a small plane/car are completely orthogonal situations. Your sources point to weather/climate as the causal source of wild fires.
- shagie 3y agohttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/plane-fires-crashes-deaths/16530225/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/27/plane-... > Small-airplane fires have killed at least 600 people since 1993, burning them alive or suffocating them after crashes and hard landings that the passengers and pilots had initially survived, a USA TODAY investigation shows. The victims who died from fatal burns or smoke inhalation often had few if any broken bones or other injuries, according to hundreds of autopsy reports obtained by USA TODAY. > Fires have erupted after incidents as minor as an airplane veering off a runway and into brush or hitting a chain-link fence, government records show. The impact ruptures fuel tanks or fuel lines, or both, causing leaks and airplane-engulfing blazes. > Fires also contributed to the death of at least 308 more people who suffered burns or smoke inhalation as well as traumatic injuries, USA TODAY found. And the fires seriously burned at least 309 people who survived, often with permanent scars after painful surgery. And while that is about dangers for an occupant it should be noted that a fire from a small airplane crash is not a rare occurrence. --- https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/flighttestprep/skills/aircraft-fires https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/flighttest... > Aircraft fires often occur following forced landings, and the result is often more dangerous than the forced landing itself. The sad truth is that most light aircraft fuel systems are not designed to withstand crash impacts, and they often fail during a forced landing. Spilled fuel and hot crash components often result in a fuel-fed inferno. Note the word often there.