4 ms·

On War and Warriors

2 points by jger15 3y ago

eimrine 3y ago
1. The older culture saw differential rewards as just when based on performance. The newer culture sees differential rewards as unjust. 2. The older culture sought people who demonstrate the most competence. The newer culture seeks to nurture those who are at a disadvantage. 3. The older culture admires those who seek to stand out. The newer culture disdains such people. 4. The older culture uses proportional punishment that is predictable based on known rules. The newer culture suddenly turns against a target and permanently banishes the alleged violator, based on the latest moral fashions. 5. The older culture valued open debate. The newer culture seeks to curtail speech it regards as dangerous. 6. The older culture saw liberty as essential to a good society. The newer culture sees conformity as essential to a good society. 7. The older culture was oriented toward achievement. The newer culture is oriented toward safety.
- gostsamo 3y ago
  Which is a quote outside of the article, so the article itself doesn't contribute that much. :D The more funny part is how the article talks about men who sit at home, play games, and watch porn, and later calls them "warriors".
  - eimrine 3y ago
    I tried to find all occurences of "warrior" and have found zero cases when the porn-watchers considered warriors. As far as I understood: a warrior is a man from past, a strong personality who were able to fight literally against everybody else: Alfred Lothar Wegener, Clair Cameron Patterson, Giordano Bruno etc. Now imagine a modern version Clair Patterson, the guy who used to fight and won against something supported by all money in the world (!) and suddenly some lady claims that he touched her butt when she was 17.
    - gostsamo 3y ago
      The opening of the article is actually lamenting how the men have been send to watch porn at home while later it explains how at the past they would've been warring in the open. And both in the past and today a single witness without colaborating evidence would be called "a bitch" "a whore", and "you've gotten what you deserve". Even today we have whistle blowers, but the way to deal with them is not through the manufactured culture conflicts, but through old fashioned brut force tactics.
      - eimrine 3y ago
        > The opening of the article is actually lamenting how the men have been send to watch porn at home while later it explains how at the past they would've been warring in the open. I understood it in such a way that men realized that there is some porn on the Internets and they chooses to stop being a warriors. If my understanding is wrong - than the men have been sent to watch porn by whom? Feminists? God? Vinton Gray Cerf? > And both in the past and today a single witness without colaborating evidence would be called "a bitch" "a whore", and "you've gotten what you deserve". But what if the witness is strong enough to be not refused? I can not forget when Brendan Eich stopped being CEO of Mosilla because he donated a thousand dollars to some traditional (anti-gay) movement. Even RMS has been fired from FSF just for defending Marvin Minsky. These guys are the best possible candidates for their workplaces. > Even today we have whistle blowers, but the way to deal with them is not through the manufactured culture conflicts, but through old fashioned brut force tactics. I know only one example to your words and not from science/technology (Jonny vs Amber).
  - abrett 3y ago
    I would like to see the part where I claimed that men who sit at home and watch porn are warriors. Could you provide the quote for me? I need to make sure that I go back and change it. Pretty sure I didn't say that though.
- kmos17 3y ago
  Ah the good old golden age, back in the days things were so much better. What a load of bs. Not sure if this is part of the article, I couldn’t read it. There are plenty of flaws to the modern western world order, and the culture wars and moral posturing can often go overboard no doubt, but it is vastly better than what came before. These arguments are nothing new and have been made many times before to justify bringing in an oppressive authoritarian new regime, be careful what you wish for. 1. The older culture was aristocratic and saw rewards as inherited or given by divine right. The newer culture aims to even access to opportunities for all. Performance is still prized and rewarded, and more so than before because achievement is more open to all. 2. The older culture sought status and was cruel to the disadvantaged. The newer culture still seeks status, sometimes from competence, but also tries to be caring to the disadvantaged. 3. Oh please, the older “manly” culture is the most conformist by its very nature, if you are not manly enough you will be spurned or worse. The ones constantly attacking anyone standing out are the same people always decrying the loss of “real men” and calling for making things great as they were in a completely unrealistic always idyllic golden age. I could go on the rest of these points but they are so asinine.

2 points by jger15 3y ago

1. The older culture saw differential rewards as just when based on performance. The newer culture sees differential rewards as unjust. 2. The older culture sought people who demonstrate the most competence. The newer culture seeks to nurture those who are at a disadvantage. 3. The older culture admires those who seek to stand out. The newer culture disdains such people. 4. The older culture uses proportional punishment that is predictable based on known rules. The newer culture suddenly turns against a target and permanently banishes the alleged violator, based on the latest moral fashions. 5. The older culture valued open debate. The newer culture seeks to curtail speech it regards as dangerous. 6. The older culture saw liberty as essential to a good society. The newer culture sees conformity as essential to a good society. 7. The older culture was oriented toward achievement. The newer culture is oriented toward safety.

gostsamo 3y ago
Which is a quote outside of the article, so the article itself doesn't contribute that much. :D The more funny part is how the article talks about men who sit at home, play games, and watch porn, and later calls them "warriors".
- eimrine 3y ago
  I tried to find all occurences of "warrior" and have found zero cases when the porn-watchers considered warriors. As far as I understood: a warrior is a man from past, a strong personality who were able to fight literally against everybody else: Alfred Lothar Wegener, Clair Cameron Patterson, Giordano Bruno etc. Now imagine a modern version Clair Patterson, the guy who used to fight and won against something supported by all money in the world (!) and suddenly some lady claims that he touched her butt when she was 17.
  - gostsamo 3y ago
    The opening of the article is actually lamenting how the men have been send to watch porn at home while later it explains how at the past they would've been warring in the open. And both in the past and today a single witness without colaborating evidence would be called "a bitch" "a whore", and "you've gotten what you deserve". Even today we have whistle blowers, but the way to deal with them is not through the manufactured culture conflicts, but through old fashioned brut force tactics.
    - eimrine 3y ago
      > The opening of the article is actually lamenting how the men have been send to watch porn at home while later it explains how at the past they would've been warring in the open. I understood it in such a way that men realized that there is some porn on the Internets and they chooses to stop being a warriors. If my understanding is wrong - than the men have been sent to watch porn by whom? Feminists? God? Vinton Gray Cerf? > And both in the past and today a single witness without colaborating evidence would be called "a bitch" "a whore", and "you've gotten what you deserve". But what if the witness is strong enough to be not refused? I can not forget when Brendan Eich stopped being CEO of Mosilla because he donated a thousand dollars to some traditional (anti-gay) movement. Even RMS has been fired from FSF just for defending Marvin Minsky. These guys are the best possible candidates for their workplaces. > Even today we have whistle blowers, but the way to deal with them is not through the manufactured culture conflicts, but through old fashioned brut force tactics. I know only one example to your words and not from science/technology (Jonny vs Amber).
- abrett 3y ago
  I would like to see the part where I claimed that men who sit at home and watch porn are warriors. Could you provide the quote for me? I need to make sure that I go back and change it. Pretty sure I didn't say that though.
kmos17 3y ago
Ah the good old golden age, back in the days things were so much better. What a load of bs. Not sure if this is part of the article, I couldn’t read it. There are plenty of flaws to the modern western world order, and the culture wars and moral posturing can often go overboard no doubt, but it is vastly better than what came before. These arguments are nothing new and have been made many times before to justify bringing in an oppressive authoritarian new regime, be careful what you wish for. 1. The older culture was aristocratic and saw rewards as inherited or given by divine right. The newer culture aims to even access to opportunities for all. Performance is still prized and rewarded, and more so than before because achievement is more open to all. 2. The older culture sought status and was cruel to the disadvantaged. The newer culture still seeks status, sometimes from competence, but also tries to be caring to the disadvantaged. 3. Oh please, the older “manly” culture is the most conformist by its very nature, if you are not manly enough you will be spurned or worse. The ones constantly attacking anyone standing out are the same people always decrying the loss of “real men” and calling for making things great as they were in a completely unrealistic always idyllic golden age. I could go on the rest of these points but they are so asinine.