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Bret Victor: Inventing on Principle

233 points by jashkenas 15y ago

Griever 15y ago
Incredible. So many unique and well-executed ideas in one presentation. It's almost too much to take in at once. With the iPad animation part in particular though, I got the same kind of feeling watching that as I do when I watch the original "mouse" videos on Youtube. Very exciting possibilities to say the least.
jasonfried 15y ago
Bret is one of the smartest, most insightful designers of our time.
tree_of_item 15y ago
Every time Bret makes a new essay I feel like I've completely missed the point about what matters in technology. It's a strange mixture of frustration and inspiration. Amazing video.
- shoover 15y ago
  I had a hard time getting the essay on time and interactivity, but this killer presentation really helped it sink in and dial the frustration to inspiration ratio.
thesash 15y ago
This is so inspiring, especially after having read and followed some of Bret Victor's previous work. You can literally see the progression of his thoughts moving towards this, demonstrating that he really is driven by inventing along the principal of immediate feedback for creators. http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ http://worrydream.com/KillMath/ http://worrydream.com/KillMath/ http://worrydream.com/InteractiveExplorationOfADynamicalSystem/ http://worrydream.com/InteractiveExplorationOfADynamicalSyst... http://worrydream.com/ScientificCommunicationAsSequentialArt/ http://worrydream.com/ScientificCommunicationAsSequentialArt... http://worrydream.com/DynamicPicturesMotivation/ http://worrydream.com/DynamicPicturesMotivation/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/Tangle/ http://worrydream.com/Tangle/
frou_dh 15y ago
It's embarrassing and inspiring how many orders of magnitude higher this guy is playing at. What a presentation.
gfodor 15y ago
Yeah, this right here is probably the Mother of All Demos for this generation. Truly stunning. Every time Bret posts something I think he's finally released his masterstroke, but then he one ups himself the next time. Can't wait to see what he does next.
Shuo 15y ago
Bret is always have some impressive ideas. I love his article and the way of thinking. He is the most insightful designer.
robbrit 15y ago
CUSEC (the conference where this was filmed) is hands-down the best technology conference I've ever been to. If you're anywhere near Montreal, I'd definitely recommend that do what you can to get up there (it's only $100!) since every year they have amazing talks like this that remind you why you became a developer.
- brown9-2 15y ago
  If you wouldn't mind - I'm curious to hear what some of the other talks you've heard at CUSEC were? This one is amazing and I'd love to make it up there some year if the rest are even half the caliber of this.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - robbrit 15y ago
    From the Vimeo page above you'll see a list of the videos on the side that have been published by CUSEC. Some ones that I liked are by Reg Braithwaite, Greg Wilson, Zed Shaw. Some ones that aren't on Vimeo that I remember really liking were by Dan Ingalls and Giles Bowkett, not sure if they were recorded or not.
Codhisattva 15y ago
Brilliant coder. Really glad this talk is available! Thank you CUSEC!
shoover 15y ago
For anyone who may read this thread and think the talk is just a showcase for Bret's design and coding skills, it's not. The demos are awesome in their own right, but they exist to set the stage for the rest of the talk. "The purpose of this talk is to tell you that this activist lifestyle is not just for social activists. As a technologist you can recognize the wrong in the world. You can have a vision for what a better world could be. You can dedicate yourself to fighting for principle. Social activists typically fight by organizing, but you can fight by inventing." He explains how he got to where he is, gives other examples from computing of people whose work transcends a skill or craft, and walks through how you can work toward that if you want to.
azizali 15y ago
I love this.. It is truly a life changer
- agumonkey 15y ago
  this is TEDtalk worth. Unbelievable.
chmelynski 15y ago
Might I note that spreadsheets have immediate feedback. They also enforce a pure functional style (which you can break out of by bolting on a script written in a completely different language. Makes it possible to mutate state, but you have to do it consciously, and it requires a context switch). Both of these are great features for programming. I sometimes use a spreadsheet to "mock up" a function, if I think the function is amenable to such a thing. Unfortunately, spreadsheets have pretty severe limitations as general computing environments.
- gruseom 15y ago
  Unfortunately, spreadsheets have pretty severe limitations as general computing environments. I'm working on this problem, so comments like this are like crack to me. Please say more. What severe limitations? Can you imagine a more powerful spreadsheet that didn't have them? If such a spreadsheet existed, what could be done with it?
  - chmelynski 15y ago
    Let me try and cover most limitations by saying this: a spreadsheet should basically be an interface to a Lisp interpreter. The ability to define new functions (within the spreadsheet itself) is the biggest thing, I guess. But if the spreadsheet is just an interface to Lisp, you get everything else, too. Another problem is that you're stuck working with tables. Tables are great, but I want to be able to edit other data structures in a spreadsheet-like way. Especially trees. Trees are everywhere. Mathematical functions, HTML, code in pretty much every programming language, XML documents (which include Word and Excel). All trees. Joel Spolsky claims in his Trello post (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html) that Excel is about simple creation of tables, and great mass-appeal products are about the data structure they revolve around. I think trees are underserved. I want to be able to write a tree, not 2 + 4 * 5 / 6, or <html><head><body></html>, or (((()()()))()())))(()()()())). Plus you don't have to give up tables. Making a table out of a tree is easy (think HTML tables). Modeling a tree with a table is more clunky, in my opinion. I think that a well-designed product along these lines could drag millions of "non-programmer" spreadsheet users all the way to Lisp.

233 points by jashkenas 15y ago

Incredible. So many unique and well-executed ideas in one presentation. It's almost too much to take in at once. With the iPad animation part in particular though, I got the same kind of feeling watching that as I do when I watch the original "mouse" videos on Youtube. Very exciting possibilities to say the least.

jasonfried 15y ago

Bret is one of the smartest, most insightful designers of our time.

tree_of_item 15y ago

Every time Bret makes a new essay I feel like I've completely missed the point about what matters in technology. It's a strange mixture of frustration and inspiration. Amazing video.

shoover 15y ago
I had a hard time getting the essay on time and interactivity, but this killer presentation really helped it sink in and dial the frustration to inspiration ratio.

thesash 15y ago

This is so inspiring, especially after having read and followed some of Bret Victor's previous work. You can literally see the progression of his thoughts moving towards this, demonstrating that he really is driven by inventing along the principal of immediate feedback for creators. http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ http://worrydream.com/MagicInk/ http://worrydream.com/KillMath/ http://worrydream.com/KillMath/ http://worrydream.com/InteractiveExplorationOfADynamicalSystem/ http://worrydream.com/InteractiveExplorationOfADynamicalSyst... http://worrydream.com/ScientificCommunicationAsSequentialArt/ http://worrydream.com/ScientificCommunicationAsSequentialArt... http://worrydream.com/DynamicPicturesMotivation/ http://worrydream.com/DynamicPicturesMotivation/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/ http://worrydream.com/Tangle/ http://worrydream.com/Tangle/

frou_dh 15y ago

It's embarrassing and inspiring how many orders of magnitude higher this guy is playing at. What a presentation.

gfodor 15y ago

Yeah, this right here is probably the Mother of All Demos for this generation. Truly stunning. Every time Bret posts something I think he's finally released his masterstroke, but then he one ups himself the next time. Can't wait to see what he does next.

Shuo 15y ago

Bret is always have some impressive ideas. I love his article and the way of thinking. He is the most insightful designer.

robbrit 15y ago

CUSEC (the conference where this was filmed) is hands-down the best technology conference I've ever been to. If you're anywhere near Montreal, I'd definitely recommend that do what you can to get up there (it's only $100!) since every year they have amazing talks like this that remind you why you became a developer.

brown9-2 15y ago
If you wouldn't mind - I'm curious to hear what some of the other talks you've heard at CUSEC were? This one is amazing and I'd love to make it up there some year if the rest are even half the caliber of this.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- robbrit 15y ago
  From the Vimeo page above you'll see a list of the videos on the side that have been published by CUSEC. Some ones that I liked are by Reg Braithwaite, Greg Wilson, Zed Shaw. Some ones that aren't on Vimeo that I remember really liking were by Dan Ingalls and Giles Bowkett, not sure if they were recorded or not.

Codhisattva 15y ago

Brilliant coder. Really glad this talk is available! Thank you CUSEC!

shoover 15y ago

For anyone who may read this thread and think the talk is just a showcase for Bret's design and coding skills, it's not. The demos are awesome in their own right, but they exist to set the stage for the rest of the talk. "The purpose of this talk is to tell you that this activist lifestyle is not just for social activists. As a technologist you can recognize the wrong in the world. You can have a vision for what a better world could be. You can dedicate yourself to fighting for principle. Social activists typically fight by organizing, but you can fight by inventing." He explains how he got to where he is, gives other examples from computing of people whose work transcends a skill or craft, and walks through how you can work toward that if you want to.

azizali 15y ago

I love this.. It is truly a life changer

agumonkey 15y ago
this is TEDtalk worth. Unbelievable.

chmelynski 15y ago

Might I note that spreadsheets have immediate feedback. They also enforce a pure functional style (which you can break out of by bolting on a script written in a completely different language. Makes it possible to mutate state, but you have to do it consciously, and it requires a context switch). Both of these are great features for programming. I sometimes use a spreadsheet to "mock up" a function, if I think the function is amenable to such a thing. Unfortunately, spreadsheets have pretty severe limitations as general computing environments.

gruseom 15y ago
Unfortunately, spreadsheets have pretty severe limitations as general computing environments. I'm working on this problem, so comments like this are like crack to me. Please say more. What severe limitations? Can you imagine a more powerful spreadsheet that didn't have them? If such a spreadsheet existed, what could be done with it?
- chmelynski 15y ago
  Let me try and cover most limitations by saying this: a spreadsheet should basically be an interface to a Lisp interpreter. The ability to define new functions (within the spreadsheet itself) is the biggest thing, I guess. But if the spreadsheet is just an interface to Lisp, you get everything else, too. Another problem is that you're stuck working with tables. Tables are great, but I want to be able to edit other data structures in a spreadsheet-like way. Especially trees. Trees are everywhere. Mathematical functions, HTML, code in pretty much every programming language, XML documents (which include Word and Excel). All trees. Joel Spolsky claims in his Trello post (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/01/06.html) that Excel is about simple creation of tables, and great mass-appeal products are about the data structure they revolve around. I think trees are underserved. I want to be able to write a tree, not 2 + 4 * 5 / 6, or <html><head><body></html>, or (((()()()))()())))(()()()())). Plus you don't have to give up tables. Making a table out of a tree is easy (think HTML tables). Modeling a tree with a table is more clunky, in my opinion. I think that a well-designed product along these lines could drag millions of "non-programmer" spreadsheet users all the way to Lisp.