4 ms·

Okay. But what's wrong with having these beliefs? And I am Christian, but not nondenominational. I have very specific beliefs. Besides, The Church of Jesus Ch

Okay. But what's wrong with having these beliefs? And I am Christian, but not nondenominational. I have very specific beliefs. Besides, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is still a major church. To argue that just because I don't believe the same things that most Christians do is a reason to deny me flight is bigoted. And that wasn't even the reason I was denied. All of the people examining me recommended that I receive a medical. Obviously, this personality of mine was no problem.

insomagent 3y ago
Hey dude, I'm a Christian too. However, you gotta realize that it's extremism that leads people to want to fly planes into buildings, something the FAA might be inclined to care a bit about. Also, mix religious extremism with quips like "the US must die", and you've got a pretty good explanation for why your application might have been denied. Also, extremism like this is not the best way to lead new people to Christ, bro. Jesus didn't care about whose face was on the denarius.
- gavinhoward 3y ago
  > Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. [1] That's the kind of dying I'm talking about. Not extremist. That blog post is saying that the US is like Sodom and Gomorrha: there's a lot of evil, and God will eventually destroy it. I'm not saying it's our job to. Absolutely not. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-fam...
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    The distinction between "God will destroy the US" and "my interpretation of my religious group must destroy the US" is not an appreciable one from the US government's perspective, particularly when you consider that religious people tend to justify their actions in the name of their god.
    - gavinhoward 3y ago
      Which are fair points, including the one about "religious" people justifying their actions, for which I added a note to my post that says this: > Edit 2023-05-11: After confusion on Hacker News, I want to clarify the previous statement. > I believe that the United States must die, but I believe that God alone must do it by natural disaster, as with what happened with Sodom and Gomorrha. It is not for any individual or group to do, especially not the Latter-day Saints. > > We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; > > – D&C 134:5 [1] [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/134?lang=eng&id=5#p5 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test...
      - weeblewobble 3y ago
        No disrespect to you personally but after reading all your comments in this thread I definitely wouldn’t want you flying a plane that I was on
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        I'm not sure how what you said could not be taken personally, to be honest. But whatever; I know my beliefs are not in vogue. And you don't have to worry about it; I want to fly helicopters.
      - serf 3y ago
        does adding a caveat to a wish for national destruction that it should be a natural disaster rather than a human group so as to avoid personal retribution for the comment seem like a Christian thing to do? Keep in mind that you're not wishing for less suffering during the calamity. You're not wishing for those that are innocent to be spared. You're not wishing for mercy. You're wishing for a cataclysm to destroy your enemies on a national level, and you don't want any guff for the opinion. None of these things strike me as something Jesus Christ would do.
pfannkuchen 3y ago
If you believe something different from most Christians, at what point does that stop being a “Christian” belief? I think any arbitrary belief could be labeled “Christian” via this logic?
- gavinhoward 3y ago
  That is true. Others don't call me Christian because I don't believe in the Nicene Creed. I call myself Christian because I try to follow Jesus Christ in my everyday life. Of course, Christ has great communication skills. I do not, as you can see from this thread. This is just one way in which I suck as a disciple of Christ.
  - insomagent 3y ago
    Actually, Gavin, I think you're an excellent writer, actually, and I rather enjoyed your articles. I hope you'll keep posting. It's just that... the US government, OSB and FBI agents, whoever is handling your application... They don't really have a sense of nuance when doing background investigations, nor should they be expected to have the resources to do so. I don't mean to shit on your dream of flying commercially, in fact I hope you achieve it. I really just pointed out what I saw, something that might be a "code smell" type red flag that could lead to bias in the FAA's selection process, consciously or not. I hope that my initial comment wasn't too crass, but sometimes people need to hear what they need to hear.
    - gavinhoward 3y ago
      I see. I apologize. I didn't understand at first. woodruffw helped me understand that that was your purpose. I added a note to that post that says this: > Edit 2023-05-11: After confusion on Hacker News, I want to clarify the previous statement. > I believe that the United States must die, but I believe that God alone must do it by natural disaster, as with what happened with Sodom and Gomorrha. It is not for any individual or group to do, especially not the Latter-day Saints. > > We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; > > – D&C 134:5 [1] I hope that fixes the problem. I apologize. I acted the way I did because I have people grab random posts and say that they can ignore me because I'm religious and then rail on me, forcing me to defend my faith. This felt a bit like that, but I was obviously wrong about that feeling. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/134?lang=eng&id=5#p5 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test...

insomagent 3y ago

Hey dude, I'm a Christian too. However, you gotta realize that it's extremism that leads people to want to fly planes into buildings, something the FAA might be inclined to care a bit about. Also, mix religious extremism with quips like "the US must die", and you've got a pretty good explanation for why your application might have been denied. Also, extremism like this is not the best way to lead new people to Christ, bro. Jesus didn't care about whose face was on the denarius.

gavinhoward 3y ago
> Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. [1] That's the kind of dying I'm talking about. Not extremist. That blog post is saying that the US is like Sodom and Gomorrha: there's a lot of evil, and God will eventually destroy it. I'm not saying it's our job to. Absolutely not. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-fam...
- woodruffw 3y ago
  The distinction between "God will destroy the US" and "my interpretation of my religious group must destroy the US" is not an appreciable one from the US government's perspective, particularly when you consider that religious people tend to justify their actions in the name of their god.
  - gavinhoward 3y ago
    Which are fair points, including the one about "religious" people justifying their actions, for which I added a note to my post that says this: > Edit 2023-05-11: After confusion on Hacker News, I want to clarify the previous statement. > I believe that the United States must die, but I believe that God alone must do it by natural disaster, as with what happened with Sodom and Gomorrha. It is not for any individual or group to do, especially not the Latter-day Saints. > > We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; > > – D&C 134:5 [1] [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/134?lang=eng&id=5#p5 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test...
    - weeblewobble 3y ago
      No disrespect to you personally but after reading all your comments in this thread I definitely wouldn’t want you flying a plane that I was on
      - gavinhoward 3y ago
        I'm not sure how what you said could not be taken personally, to be honest. But whatever; I know my beliefs are not in vogue. And you don't have to worry about it; I want to fly helicopters.
    - serf 3y ago
      does adding a caveat to a wish for national destruction that it should be a natural disaster rather than a human group so as to avoid personal retribution for the comment seem like a Christian thing to do? Keep in mind that you're not wishing for less suffering during the calamity. You're not wishing for those that are innocent to be spared. You're not wishing for mercy. You're wishing for a cataclysm to destroy your enemies on a national level, and you don't want any guff for the opinion. None of these things strike me as something Jesus Christ would do.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

If you believe something different from most Christians, at what point does that stop being a “Christian” belief? I think any arbitrary belief could be labeled “Christian” via this logic?

gavinhoward 3y ago
That is true. Others don't call me Christian because I don't believe in the Nicene Creed. I call myself Christian because I try to follow Jesus Christ in my everyday life. Of course, Christ has great communication skills. I do not, as you can see from this thread. This is just one way in which I suck as a disciple of Christ.
- insomagent 3y ago
  Actually, Gavin, I think you're an excellent writer, actually, and I rather enjoyed your articles. I hope you'll keep posting. It's just that... the US government, OSB and FBI agents, whoever is handling your application... They don't really have a sense of nuance when doing background investigations, nor should they be expected to have the resources to do so. I don't mean to shit on your dream of flying commercially, in fact I hope you achieve it. I really just pointed out what I saw, something that might be a "code smell" type red flag that could lead to bias in the FAA's selection process, consciously or not. I hope that my initial comment wasn't too crass, but sometimes people need to hear what they need to hear.
  - gavinhoward 3y ago
    I see. I apologize. I didn't understand at first. woodruffw helped me understand that that was your purpose. I added a note to that post that says this: > Edit 2023-05-11: After confusion on Hacker News, I want to clarify the previous statement. > I believe that the United States must die, but I believe that God alone must do it by natural disaster, as with what happened with Sodom and Gomorrha. It is not for any individual or group to do, especially not the Latter-day Saints. > > We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; > > – D&C 134:5 [1] I hope that fixes the problem. I apologize. I acted the way I did because I have people grab random posts and say that they can ignore me because I'm religious and then rail on me, forcing me to defend my faith. This felt a bit like that, but I was obviously wrong about that feeling. [1]: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/134?lang=eng&id=5#p5 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test...