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Most people have Expectations about the way things work - code in a text editor, write tests, run them. Check code into Github. Go to a website to find docume

Most people have Expectations about the way things work - code in a text editor, write tests, run them. Check code into Github. Go to a website to find documentation. Pharo defies all of those conventions (well, maybe not Github, but even that is unusual). People just aren't accustomed to in-IDE tutorials. It doesn't even occur to people that such things might exist. It's hard to notice that which you never even imagined possible.

rbanffy 3y ago
One of the most frequent criticisms of Smalltalk is that it doesn't play well with others. It's an IDE, but it's also a runtime, and, in a sense, a whole OS, with its own programs and development tools, in a virtual machine (running on your computer or, in ancient times, on bare metal). It IS alien to those who come from text editors and IDEs. OTOH, it makes our usual development environments look crude in comparison. In fact, Smalltalk 80 still has that effect.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  You can always check out Lisp and its ecosystem. It too doesn't "play well with others", but in modern times, it positioned itself half-way between Smalltalk and mainstream stuff - it still makes our usual practice look crude in comparison, but it lost a lot of magic that come from fully embracing in-image living. The barrier to entry for outsiders is much lower though, and you can use git with it in a straightforward fashion - not in... whatever it is that Pharo does.
AllegedAlec 3y ago
> People just aren't accustomed to in-IDE tutorials. It doesn't even occur to people that such things might exist. Well, yeah. But it opens when you open an image for the first time. It's right there in plain view. The first thing you see on the website are "discover" "download" and "learn" buttons. It's all these in plain view; it's not hidden away.
- nullstyle 3y ago
  This was not my experience. In fact, on my windows box the latest Pharo Launcher fails nearly silently when trying to launch both the MOOC image and the Pharo 11 base image. When attempting to launch an image, A piece of toast (to borrow an androidism) would show up in the bottom left saying "Launch, Ctrl+L" for roughly 1 second, fade away, and then nothing would happen. I had to switch to my Mac to get it to properly launch. The Pharo onboarding experience needs work.

rbanffy 3y ago

One of the most frequent criticisms of Smalltalk is that it doesn't play well with others. It's an IDE, but it's also a runtime, and, in a sense, a whole OS, with its own programs and development tools, in a virtual machine (running on your computer or, in ancient times, on bare metal). It IS alien to those who come from text editors and IDEs. OTOH, it makes our usual development environments look crude in comparison. In fact, Smalltalk 80 still has that effect.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
You can always check out Lisp and its ecosystem. It too doesn't "play well with others", but in modern times, it positioned itself half-way between Smalltalk and mainstream stuff - it still makes our usual practice look crude in comparison, but it lost a lot of magic that come from fully embracing in-image living. The barrier to entry for outsiders is much lower though, and you can use git with it in a straightforward fashion - not in... whatever it is that Pharo does.

AllegedAlec 3y ago

> People just aren't accustomed to in-IDE tutorials. It doesn't even occur to people that such things might exist. Well, yeah. But it opens when you open an image for the first time. It's right there in plain view. The first thing you see on the website are "discover" "download" and "learn" buttons. It's all these in plain view; it's not hidden away.

nullstyle 3y ago
This was not my experience. In fact, on my windows box the latest Pharo Launcher fails nearly silently when trying to launch both the MOOC image and the Pharo 11 base image. When attempting to launch an image, A piece of toast (to borrow an androidism) would show up in the bottom left saying "Launch, Ctrl+L" for roughly 1 second, fade away, and then nothing would happen. I had to switch to my Mac to get it to properly launch. The Pharo onboarding experience needs work.