5 ms·

Are Mastodon users really that dim or are they trolls? Encrypted messaging is good unless the government uses it? I don't understand their reasoning.

_zqha 4y ago
They're just that dim. It's made up of people who would use Twitter, but find the fact its a corporation / Elon so objectionable they use Mastodon instead. Of course they're going to have ridiculous takes on funding through providing software to governments.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  And you're ass-pulling non-facts on the comment section of an HN post instead of doing pretty much anything else.
whakim 4y ago
In the most generous possible reading of some of the comments, there's a distinction to be made between "the government"/"the police"/etc. using encrypted messaging versus actively supporting those entities and supplying them with a product that furthers their goals. After all, a big part of the value proposition is avoiding government and police surveillance. That being said, I find it difficult to take most of the comments seriously when the debate quickly descends into conspiracy theories about theoretical encryption backdoors.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I know Matrix is struggling with funding, but I can see how people see things like https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058 https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058 as supporting industries/agencies rather than just selling software. However, most of the comments seem to be pure paranoia, but you see such paranoia on all tech sites. There are plenty of accusations of backdoors and government plants to be found here on HN too. The difference is that social media doesn't have downvotes to get those messages out of view when you first open the page.
dsr_ 4y ago
It's clearly both. Some are dim, some are trolls, some are both. And sane people double-checked the words, shrugged and didn't bother commenting.
teekert 4y ago
"Mastodon users",... jeez, thanx. Yeah, we really are pretty dim, but at least we never generalize. (Edit: You see it’s funny because this is a generalization, pretty dim right!)
johngladtj 4y ago
Encrypted messaging might be good, and giving the matrix devs a financial incentive to stay in the governments good graces might be bad. If they're paying your paychecks, you're going to think twice about implementing features they won't like.
- cies 4y ago
  Then fork, extend, plugin, whatever. Chrome also still allows uBlock, etc. (myself on FF though) Govts also use the JVM or Linux: did those projects suffer? I think FLOSS is for all: the good guy and the bad guy (in whomever's eyes), its about freedom not control.
hammyhavoc 4y ago
Why would you assume there aren't idiots who use Mastodon? Why would you make a broad a generalization about all Mastodon users? There's dolts on HN (myself included probably), but not everybody is a moron. Twitter was the same story.
- teawrecks 4y ago
  A year+ ago, mastodon was almost exclusively used by people who had a principled reason to. They understood why Twitter was volatile and manipulative. Within the last year, many people converted specifically because they don't like Musk, and have no idea what mastodon really is. I would bet more than half of those converts don't even know what a federated platform is, they think mastodon is just another Twitter competitor, and when Musk "buys it" they'll all be ready to jump ship again to some Chinese Twitter clone. So yes, I do not think this thread full of fundamental misunderstandings on mastodon could have happened a year ago, at least it's not nearly as likely, or to this scale.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Is this not an indicator of success? Normies using it means it works. Email is used by people who have no idea what it really is, and I would bet more than half of those people don't know what decentralization is. Shall we do HTTPS and DNS next? You're lamenting a piece of software being apolitical and its users largely becoming non-militant in their ideology. Users are users. If the purpose of Mastodon is to provide a decentralized Twitter-like experience then that's what it has succeeded in doing. Do we boo and hiss over grandma using an Android phone because she doesn't believe in the power of open source or even know what it is?

_zqha 4y ago

They're just that dim. It's made up of people who would use Twitter, but find the fact its a corporation / Elon so objectionable they use Mastodon instead. Of course they're going to have ridiculous takes on funding through providing software to governments.

hammyhavoc 4y ago
And you're ass-pulling non-facts on the comment section of an HN post instead of doing pretty much anything else.

whakim 4y ago

In the most generous possible reading of some of the comments, there's a distinction to be made between "the government"/"the police"/etc. using encrypted messaging versus actively supporting those entities and supplying them with a product that furthers their goals. After all, a big part of the value proposition is avoiding government and police surveillance. That being said, I find it difficult to take most of the comments seriously when the debate quickly descends into conspiracy theories about theoretical encryption backdoors.

jeroenhd 4y ago
I know Matrix is struggling with funding, but I can see how people see things like https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058 https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110310853505977058 as supporting industries/agencies rather than just selling software. However, most of the comments seem to be pure paranoia, but you see such paranoia on all tech sites. There are plenty of accusations of backdoors and government plants to be found here on HN too. The difference is that social media doesn't have downvotes to get those messages out of view when you first open the page.

dsr_ 4y ago

It's clearly both. Some are dim, some are trolls, some are both. And sane people double-checked the words, shrugged and didn't bother commenting.

teekert 4y ago

"Mastodon users",... jeez, thanx. Yeah, we really are pretty dim, but at least we never generalize. (Edit: You see it’s funny because this is a generalization, pretty dim right!)

johngladtj 4y ago

Encrypted messaging might be good, and giving the matrix devs a financial incentive to stay in the governments good graces might be bad. If they're paying your paychecks, you're going to think twice about implementing features they won't like.

cies 4y ago
Then fork, extend, plugin, whatever. Chrome also still allows uBlock, etc. (myself on FF though) Govts also use the JVM or Linux: did those projects suffer? I think FLOSS is for all: the good guy and the bad guy (in whomever's eyes), its about freedom not control.

hammyhavoc 4y ago

Why would you assume there aren't idiots who use Mastodon? Why would you make a broad a generalization about all Mastodon users? There's dolts on HN (myself included probably), but not everybody is a moron. Twitter was the same story.

teawrecks 4y ago
A year+ ago, mastodon was almost exclusively used by people who had a principled reason to. They understood why Twitter was volatile and manipulative. Within the last year, many people converted specifically because they don't like Musk, and have no idea what mastodon really is. I would bet more than half of those converts don't even know what a federated platform is, they think mastodon is just another Twitter competitor, and when Musk "buys it" they'll all be ready to jump ship again to some Chinese Twitter clone. So yes, I do not think this thread full of fundamental misunderstandings on mastodon could have happened a year ago, at least it's not nearly as likely, or to this scale.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  Is this not an indicator of success? Normies using it means it works. Email is used by people who have no idea what it really is, and I would bet more than half of those people don't know what decentralization is. Shall we do HTTPS and DNS next? You're lamenting a piece of software being apolitical and its users largely becoming non-militant in their ideology. Users are users. If the purpose of Mastodon is to provide a decentralized Twitter-like experience then that's what it has succeeded in doing. Do we boo and hiss over grandma using an Android phone because she doesn't believe in the power of open source or even know what it is?