2 ms·

> I sincerely hope that I never meet Sam Bankman Fried, because if I did I do not know what I would do but it certainly wouldn't be legal. You are insinuating

by gist 3y ago

> I sincerely hope that I never meet Sam Bankman Fried, because if I did I do not know what I would do but it certainly wouldn't be legal. You are insinuating physical violence (I will assume) which is never acceptable. And in your case you made a mistake ie 'I put a chunk of money in there' and further SBF had no control over this: 'because this all unfolded right after I got fired from my last job, when I really needed my liquid money to pay for things like "my mortgage" and "food".' The takeaway for others is events happen in life. Could be someone's fault could be nobody's fault. Having all your eggs (or no eggs) in one basket can and does lead often to disaster. Sorry for the harsh way of putting this. What you are indicating is that you had no cushion and made the mistake of being lured by a high return and ignored potentially any downsides. (Gemini is not and did not claim to be an FDIC insured bank. Also crypto can and does lose value unlike money in a bank. Even if you had been able to get 7% return if crypto loses value you lose money. Same as or similar to a dividend paying stock).

alexb_ 3y ago
It's easy to say it's never acceptable when it's not your life savings that have been stolen.
tombert 3y ago
> You are insinuating physical violence (I will assume) which is never acceptable. I mean, the guy stole about more than ten thousand dollars from me. I wouldn't actually hurt him, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (which I feel you're deliberately refusing to understand), but fundamentally I am not going to lose a ton of sleep if something bad happens to SBF. > and further SBF had no control over this: 'because this all unfolded right after I got fired from my last job, when I really needed my liquid money to pay for things like "my mortgage" and "food".' No, but it is why I am especially upset over this stuff. If it had happened when I was gainfully employed at the time I would obviously be upset to have thirteen grand stolen from me, but it especially hurt because I was a victim of all the layoffs that happened last year. I didn't claim there was some divine rationality, which I also think you are deliberately not understanding. > Having all your eggs (or no eggs) in one basket can and does lead often to disaster. > Sorry for the harsh way of putting this. What you are indicating is that you had no cushion In the post that you are responding to, I mention that I did have a cushion, and I didn't put all my eggs in one basket. I had a fair bit of stock and ETFs. I had to sell in a down market, so that wasn't fun, but I feel like you didn't finish reading the post. > Also crypto can and does lose value unlike money in a bank. Even if you had been able to get 7% return if crypto loses value you lose money This was GUSD, which was ostensibly pegged 1-to-1 to the US dollar, so it wasn't supposed to be able to "lose value" in any substantial way. > Gemini is not and did not claim to be an FDIC insured bank. No, but the verbiage on this was less clear on this in the past: https://web.archive.org/web/20211201224824/https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://web.archive.org/web/20211201224824/https://www.gemin.... Thanks johnmaguire in this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35907642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35907642
- gist 3y ago
  I looked at that archive.org page. That is the marketing page for the GUSD. (And separate the actual signup page my guess is it goes into a bit more detail.) Also that is not the page for geminiearn - that is where the issue was with losing money. This page: https://web.archive.org/web/20211201212024/https://www.gemini.com/earn https://web.archive.org/web/20211201212024/https://www.gemin... Now I will note that on that page it does say this: "Gemini is partnering with accredited third party borrowers including Genesis, who are vetted through a risk management framework which reviews our partners’ collateralization management process. Additionally, on a periodic basis we will conduct an analysis of our partners’ cash flow, balance sheet, and financial statements to ensure the appropriate risk ratios and healthy financial condition of our partners." But the thing is this. There is literally no way to prevent against outright fraud of a counter party. (See the Crazy Eddie story where they were shifting inventory from store to store when they were being audited). Look one thing I will tell you here let's call it 'the bottom line'. I am an old timer. And I right off saw crypto involved risk and as such I did not either make or lose any money on crypto. As an again 'old timer' it just didn't make sense to me. I would have never gone down this road because being around for so many years right off it had the potential for issues. Plus again there is always counterparty risk.
  - tombert 3y ago
    Sure, I don't think I ever disputed the fact that I should have done more due diligence, and I feel like I've mentioned that fact multiple times now. However, I do think Gemini/Genesis and SBF were deliberately obfuscating the risk to make these investments seem less risky, and obviously I have the right to be mad at SBF for outright stealing my money. Was 7% in 2021 too good to be true? Yes, obviously, in hindsight it was, but that pays no bearing on whether or not I was robbed.

by gist 3y ago

alexb_ 3y ago

It's easy to say it's never acceptable when it's not your life savings that have been stolen.

tombert 3y ago

> You are insinuating physical violence (I will assume) which is never acceptable. I mean, the guy stole about more than ten thousand dollars from me. I wouldn't actually hurt him, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (which I feel you're deliberately refusing to understand), but fundamentally I am not going to lose a ton of sleep if something bad happens to SBF. > and further SBF had no control over this: 'because this all unfolded right after I got fired from my last job, when I really needed my liquid money to pay for things like "my mortgage" and "food".' No, but it is why I am especially upset over this stuff. If it had happened when I was gainfully employed at the time I would obviously be upset to have thirteen grand stolen from me, but it especially hurt because I was a victim of all the layoffs that happened last year. I didn't claim there was some divine rationality, which I also think you are deliberately not understanding. > Having all your eggs (or no eggs) in one basket can and does lead often to disaster. > Sorry for the harsh way of putting this. What you are indicating is that you had no cushion In the post that you are responding to, I mention that I did have a cushion, and I didn't put all my eggs in one basket. I had a fair bit of stock and ETFs. I had to sell in a down market, so that wasn't fun, but I feel like you didn't finish reading the post. > Also crypto can and does lose value unlike money in a bank. Even if you had been able to get 7% return if crypto loses value you lose money This was GUSD, which was ostensibly pegged 1-to-1 to the US dollar, so it wasn't supposed to be able to "lose value" in any substantial way. > Gemini is not and did not claim to be an FDIC insured bank. No, but the verbiage on this was less clear on this in the past: https://web.archive.org/web/20211201224824/https://www.gemini.com/dollar https://web.archive.org/web/20211201224824/https://www.gemin.... Thanks johnmaguire in this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35907642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35907642

gist 3y ago
I looked at that archive.org page. That is the marketing page for the GUSD. (And separate the actual signup page my guess is it goes into a bit more detail.) Also that is not the page for geminiearn - that is where the issue was with losing money. This page: https://web.archive.org/web/20211201212024/https://www.gemini.com/earn https://web.archive.org/web/20211201212024/https://www.gemin... Now I will note that on that page it does say this: "Gemini is partnering with accredited third party borrowers including Genesis, who are vetted through a risk management framework which reviews our partners’ collateralization management process. Additionally, on a periodic basis we will conduct an analysis of our partners’ cash flow, balance sheet, and financial statements to ensure the appropriate risk ratios and healthy financial condition of our partners." But the thing is this. There is literally no way to prevent against outright fraud of a counter party. (See the Crazy Eddie story where they were shifting inventory from store to store when they were being audited). Look one thing I will tell you here let's call it 'the bottom line'. I am an old timer. And I right off saw crypto involved risk and as such I did not either make or lose any money on crypto. As an again 'old timer' it just didn't make sense to me. I would have never gone down this road because being around for so many years right off it had the potential for issues. Plus again there is always counterparty risk.
- tombert 3y ago
  Sure, I don't think I ever disputed the fact that I should have done more due diligence, and I feel like I've mentioned that fact multiple times now. However, I do think Gemini/Genesis and SBF were deliberately obfuscating the risk to make these investments seem less risky, and obviously I have the right to be mad at SBF for outright stealing my money. Was 7% in 2021 too good to be true? Yes, obviously, in hindsight it was, but that pays no bearing on whether or not I was robbed.