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> But from everything Elon has said on the subject, it's very clear that what he means when he talks about it and what I mean when I talk about it are not the s

> But from everything Elon has said on the subject, it's very clear that what he means when he talks about it and what I mean when I talk about it are not the same thing. Not my recollection. This article is a good summary: https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spacex-mars-city-codex https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spacex-mars-city-codex The article went back to some of his presentations far back.

danaris 3y ago
Er...did you read that? > People interested in moving to Mars could pay for their flight with a loan. Once there, people would be able to pay off the loan by working in anything from iron foundries to pizzerias. Indentured servitude. > This city would be free to govern itself on its own terms, as indicated by the Starlink internet service terms and conditions released in October 2020. This appears to stand in contradiction to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which states that the launch origin country is responsible for subsequent space activities. Avoiding all current human laws.
- signatoremo 3y ago
  Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? How do you suggest the people who move there to pay for the tickets? Corporations who pay in exchange for labor? Or governments who pay in exchange for services? If anything that would make them beholden to their employers. > Avoiding all current human laws That is an uncharitable take. He said they should govern in their own terms, not that they should “avoiding all current human laws”. American laws are very similar to British ones, even if Americans refused to be governed by the British ones. If you want to judge his intention according to your bias, be my guest, but nothing he said clearly indicates whatever ideas you think he has, according to this article.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
    >> Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? But those people would be on Mars, entirely dependent even for the air they breathe on the same institutions controlling their debt and making the laws. What kind of protections against abuse would those people have? You might quibble about the terminology of "indentured servitude" but what is described really sounds like a situation that nobody who wouldn't want to be the property of someone else would like to put themselves in.
  - danaris 3y ago
    > Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? I didn't say they wouldn't be getting any money. I said they'd be indentured servants. Which they would. Indentured servants aren't slaves. They are beholden to the people or corporation who hold their debt, though—and I have absolutely zero faith that a Mars colony run by Elon Musk would make the life of an indentured servant in his colony look like anything close to the life of someone who paid full price to come. > That is an uncharitable take. You're damn right it's an uncharitable take. I do not believe Elon Musk deserves the benefit of any doubt at this point. He has demonstrated himself to be a despicable human being on a number of accounts—even before he started actively allying himself with white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Let me reiterate, just to be 100% clear: I believe that because of his demonstrated behavior, Elon Musk, unlike nearly anyone else one could name, deserves his statements in articles like this to be treated with the maximum skepticism and interpreted in the least charitable way.

danaris 3y ago

Er...did you read that? > People interested in moving to Mars could pay for their flight with a loan. Once there, people would be able to pay off the loan by working in anything from iron foundries to pizzerias. Indentured servitude. > This city would be free to govern itself on its own terms, as indicated by the Starlink internet service terms and conditions released in October 2020. This appears to stand in contradiction to the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which states that the launch origin country is responsible for subsequent space activities. Avoiding all current human laws.

signatoremo 3y ago
Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? How do you suggest the people who move there to pay for the tickets? Corporations who pay in exchange for labor? Or governments who pay in exchange for services? If anything that would make them beholden to their employers. > Avoiding all current human laws That is an uncharitable take. He said they should govern in their own terms, not that they should “avoiding all current human laws”. American laws are very similar to British ones, even if Americans refused to be governed by the British ones. If you want to judge his intention according to your bias, be my guest, but nothing he said clearly indicates whatever ideas you think he has, according to this article.
- YeGoblynQueenne 3y ago
  >> Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? But those people would be on Mars, entirely dependent even for the air they breathe on the same institutions controlling their debt and making the laws. What kind of protections against abuse would those people have? You might quibble about the terminology of "indentured servitude" but what is described really sounds like a situation that nobody who wouldn't want to be the property of someone else would like to put themselves in.
- danaris 3y ago
  > Working to pay off loans doesn’t mean they won’t have salary. You’ve had loans, haven’t you? I didn't say they wouldn't be getting any money. I said they'd be indentured servants. Which they would. Indentured servants aren't slaves. They are beholden to the people or corporation who hold their debt, though—and I have absolutely zero faith that a Mars colony run by Elon Musk would make the life of an indentured servant in his colony look like anything close to the life of someone who paid full price to come. > That is an uncharitable take. You're damn right it's an uncharitable take. I do not believe Elon Musk deserves the benefit of any doubt at this point. He has demonstrated himself to be a despicable human being on a number of accounts—even before he started actively allying himself with white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Let me reiterate, just to be 100% clear: I believe that because of his demonstrated behavior, Elon Musk, unlike nearly anyone else one could name, deserves his statements in articles like this to be treated with the maximum skepticism and interpreted in the least charitable way.