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> I just turned 50 in October I'm turning 50 this month and a professional developer since I was about 21-22. > I think the lack of TDD being as widely adopte

> I just turned 50 in October I'm turning 50 this month and a professional developer since I was about 21-22. > I think the lack of TDD being as widely adopted Hilariously, I just got -4'd (and a whole thread) for asking why someone didn't just write tests, instead of building some half baked tool to debug their websocket app. The responses were all sorts of absurd excuses. I'll happily take the negative karma, cause I know it brings some awareness. (Now I'm getting downvoted again. Oh hn, you crack me up.)

jasonlotito 4y ago
I dislike meta posts generally, but I'll give it a go so maybe you learn. > Now I'm getting downvoted again. Oh hn, you crack me up. Because you were whining about down votes. Generally, when I see someone whining about voting, I'll vote down without a second thought, regardless of the content of the post. Why? From the guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading." I know a good number of other people react this way as well. Instead of whining about getting voted up or down, instead, use this as an opportunity to improve your messaging. > I'll happily take the negative karma, cause I know it brings some awareness. Up-voted comments bring more awareness. If you truly cared about bringing awareness to something, you'd want to communicate effectively, and effective communication is critical in our field. Anyways, I generally hate meta comments like this one, but hopefully you have a better understanding of why people are most likely down voting this comment.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Great response! That said, my intention wasn't to whine. I truly don't care about the act of getting downvoted. What I was trying to point out is that I was getting downvoted in my original post, because "kids these days" are against the general concept of TDD. That's in response to this OP's comment that I quoted. Why were they against TDD? One person said it was because their CTO made them do 100% test coverage and that caused the startup to fail. Is that the failure of TDD or the failure of the CTO? ;-) Now you're getting downvoted? LOL! For the record, I upvoted you.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  The first rule of fight club is we don't talk openly about the meta-rules of fight club.
bastardoperator 4y ago
I'm all about testing especially at the unit level but I've never personally seen TDD implemented successfully. I won't lie, I'll write my code, write my tests, refactor based on new learnings, check coverage stats, and PR for feedback. I'm also 40+ too.
- MoreQARespect 4y ago
  I've seen it done properly with unit tests on algorithmic or decision making code (parsers, calculators, complex, deterministic thinking code). I've seen it done properly with integration tests on integration code (CRUD, messaging, websites, etc.). However, people do insist on writing unit tests on integration code and when they do it, it all goes horribly wrong.
  - twic 4y ago
    I was in the middle of writing a reply to the comment you replied to, when i had to stop because my app was crashing in staging, because i had written a unit test for integration code.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      I built an app that ran on 30k+ servers across multiple data centers and it had an auto update mechanism because the app needed to be routinely updated with new features. I had an integration test that ensured that the app would start up correctly and that the self-update mechanism worked. Without those tests, any failure to start would cause me to have to "talk" to 30k+ servers to get it to install a new version of the app. (ssh into each server and re-install the app). Automating that communication across that many servers (many of which could be rebooting at any time) and ensuring that they all had a running version of the app, was difficult to say the least. How do you even track that the app is running? (You end up having to have a ping mechanism too!) Of course, I didn't start off with those tests and had to do things the hard way more than a few times. The thing is that once I added the tests, I never once had to do things the hard way again. So, you can certainly do things the hard way, or you can just write tests and be done with it and work on features instead.
stcroixx 4y ago
You're old enough then to have used message boards before they turned into a popularity contest with voting. It's easy enough to just ignore those features entirely.
- layer8 4y ago
  I was about to upvote your comment but then noticed the contradiction in doing so. :)

jasonlotito 4y ago

I dislike meta posts generally, but I'll give it a go so maybe you learn. > Now I'm getting downvoted again. Oh hn, you crack me up. Because you were whining about down votes. Generally, when I see someone whining about voting, I'll vote down without a second thought, regardless of the content of the post. Why? From the guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading." I know a good number of other people react this way as well. Instead of whining about getting voted up or down, instead, use this as an opportunity to improve your messaging. > I'll happily take the negative karma, cause I know it brings some awareness. Up-voted comments bring more awareness. If you truly cared about bringing awareness to something, you'd want to communicate effectively, and effective communication is critical in our field. Anyways, I generally hate meta comments like this one, but hopefully you have a better understanding of why people are most likely down voting this comment.

latchkey 4y ago
Great response! That said, my intention wasn't to whine. I truly don't care about the act of getting downvoted. What I was trying to point out is that I was getting downvoted in my original post, because "kids these days" are against the general concept of TDD. That's in response to this OP's comment that I quoted. Why were they against TDD? One person said it was because their CTO made them do 100% test coverage and that caused the startup to fail. Is that the failure of TDD or the failure of the CTO? ;-) Now you're getting downvoted? LOL! For the record, I upvoted you.
drewcoo 4y ago
The first rule of fight club is we don't talk openly about the meta-rules of fight club.

bastardoperator 4y ago

I'm all about testing especially at the unit level but I've never personally seen TDD implemented successfully. I won't lie, I'll write my code, write my tests, refactor based on new learnings, check coverage stats, and PR for feedback. I'm also 40+ too.

MoreQARespect 4y ago
I've seen it done properly with unit tests on algorithmic or decision making code (parsers, calculators, complex, deterministic thinking code). I've seen it done properly with integration tests on integration code (CRUD, messaging, websites, etc.). However, people do insist on writing unit tests on integration code and when they do it, it all goes horribly wrong.
- twic 4y ago
  I was in the middle of writing a reply to the comment you replied to, when i had to stop because my app was crashing in staging, because i had written a unit test for integration code.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    I built an app that ran on 30k+ servers across multiple data centers and it had an auto update mechanism because the app needed to be routinely updated with new features. I had an integration test that ensured that the app would start up correctly and that the self-update mechanism worked. Without those tests, any failure to start would cause me to have to "talk" to 30k+ servers to get it to install a new version of the app. (ssh into each server and re-install the app). Automating that communication across that many servers (many of which could be rebooting at any time) and ensuring that they all had a running version of the app, was difficult to say the least. How do you even track that the app is running? (You end up having to have a ping mechanism too!) Of course, I didn't start off with those tests and had to do things the hard way more than a few times. The thing is that once I added the tests, I never once had to do things the hard way again. So, you can certainly do things the hard way, or you can just write tests and be done with it and work on features instead.

stcroixx 4y ago

You're old enough then to have used message boards before they turned into a popularity contest with voting. It's easy enough to just ignore those features entirely.

layer8 4y ago
I was about to upvote your comment but then noticed the contradiction in doing so. :)