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I don't think you are accurately critiquing the point made above. It is right that founders have a vastly different risk/reward tradeoff to employee engineers.
by lifeonlars 3y ago
I don't think you are accurately critiquing the point made above. It is right that founders have a vastly different risk/reward tradeoff to employee engineers. I don't think that is the socialist engineers' argument.
Suppose there are 3 people involved in a startup: the founder, the engineer and the investor. The engineer gets $300,000 for 2 years' work. The founder gets $200,000 for 3 years' very intense work + $10 million if the startup succeeds. The investor puts in capital, does no work, and gets $40 million if the startup succeeds.
It is arguable that the founder and the engineer are getting a comparable amount but with a different risk profile. The socialist argument is that the person who only provides capital is overpaid for doing that. Whether that argument has an economic justification, or just a political or moral justification, and whether you believe that argument, is another matter. But it is clear that, if the investor got less, there would be more to pay both of the people who contribute work.
Perhaps a source of confusion is that successful founders often go on to become investors with the money they have collected, for example Paul Graham or Marc Andreessen. You could also argue that someone like Mark Zuckerberg, while still nominally 'working' as CEO, has gone from being a founder in Facebook the product to being an investor who provides capital for various Facebook the company projects, and that perhaps much of his wealth was accumulated in the second stage.
- marknutter 3y agoIn the vast majority of cases, the startup will not succeed, and the investor will lose their investment, while the founder will make $100,000 less than the engineer and lose credibility as a founder in the process. The engineer loses nothing other than the potential future income they might have received if the company had succeeded, and they will likely just find another job.
- lifeonlars 3y agoObviously to the investor, only the average case over a large number of investments matters.
- pseudalopex 3y agoMany founders had failed startups before. A significant loss of credibility is not the vast majority of cases in my experience. And paying themselves less than engineers is not universal either.
- slt2021 3y agoengineer can always negotiate a lower salary + higher equity stake if he joins early + works lot more harder to create early product and reach PMF (especially as a founding engineer / cofounder/ etc) imo market forces have some equilibrium in current state
- Brian_K_White 3y agoWhy are you still talking about the peanuts squabble between the engineer and the founder when they just illustrated that the investor walks away with everything?
- slt2021 3y agoAnd why do founders voluntarily give everything away to investors? Its not like founders are forced to. They can always be profitable and fund from their own operational cash flow