4 ms·

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. U

Writing is thinking. You do it as much for yourself as you do your readers and having to put effort into it is how you realize gains. Like strength training. Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you. It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. (Before I get the usual sorts of replies: I'm not talking about writing boilerplate or marketing copy or canned responses to e-mails or just generating reams of prose so you can slap ads on it and make money or whatever. I'm talking about writing with the purpose of getting your personal thoughts and ideas out into the world.)

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
I made a up a word to differentiate the boilerplate/canned/whatever activity to the personal-growth oriented one: ---- Righting. verb. 1. writing to change the way the world is oriented > I resolve to continue righting until the wrongs go away. 2. writing to change the way oneself is oriented > I resolve to continue righting until I'm not wrong anymore. ---- Ambiguity in usage being more or less the point.
psychlops 3y ago
> It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. As a lazy writer who never skips legs day, I appreciate this comment. It inspires me to write more than snarky snippets online.
oh_sigh 3y ago
But what if AI will write a more compelling paragraph than you ever could, even if you devoted your life to writing? So it might only be people who use AI who get their personal thoughts and ideas out into the world.
- chasing 3y ago
  I wrote: "Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you." I didn't say I was opposed to using the AI tools. I'm opposed to using them to think for you — to do the "hard part." If they help with a turn-of-phrase or vocabulary or structure or whatever then they're just a more advanced version of tools people already use for those things.
sva_ 3y ago
In contrast, > If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows. - Plato Although this is different, because it is still written, just not by oneself, which probably makes the effect of relying on it and forgetting even worse.
- ecshafer 3y ago
  Plato here is often brought out as a counter example for why saying a technology will damage cognition is obviously wrong, but I don't think its that simple. Writing and the proliferation of knowledge is an obvious good, but I think plato is otherwise correct here. Societies without reading and writing seem to have people who are able to memorize much larger amounts of information, the early muslims memorized the koran at first, which is quite a feat, before writing it down. A more accurate view is that there are trade offs.
- chasing 3y ago
  I guess I disagree with Plato, unless he's talking about how I no longer know anyone's phone numbers off the top of my head. I think it's fairly well established that when you think about a topic well enough to generate ideas and put them on the page that you also cement those ideas in your mind. If you want to remember something you read (or see or do), write about it. In your own words.
nickfromseattle 3y ago
> or marketing copy I don't think marketing copy deserves to be grouped with 'boilerplate' and 'canned responses'. It takes a lot of brain power to create marketing copy that isn't boilerplate / canned / generic. Good marketing copy persuades people to take a specific action, and figuring out what this takes just as much critical thinking, iteration, and getting your reps in as any other compelling content. Which is why most marketing copy feels bland / generic / boilerplate / canned. It's not easy.
pazimzadeh 3y ago
Writing is a form of thinking. It only takes one or two manic episodes to realize that they're not always super correlated.
- waboremo 3y ago
  Don't even need manic episodes to understand this (and if you went through one I'm terribly sorry, they can be such cruel events people disregard), music is a good example. You can be so profoundly moved by a song in an entirely different language you don't understand not because of writing, but because of what the person conveys through sound. Instruments as another example of this. What our thoughts are made up of visuals (shapes, lights), feelings, and sounds. Not words, however words are convenient shortcuts to communication so we use them a lot. This is part of why we continue trying to understand animals. It's also why multilingual people will have these jarring stops in speaking/writing, and struggle to connect those visuals/feelings/sounds in their mind to the expression (speaking/writing). It's literally the reason that "love" is so elusive to us. Despite numerous people trying their best over centuries to express it in writing, music, art, etc. it's still this profound feeling we feel has endless potential. We know it's just brain signals, and yet it continues to be deeply embedded in our thoughts.
  - pazimzadeh 3y ago
    I totally agree with you. Had a similar discussion in a previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35683027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35683027
    - waboremo 3y ago
      Thank you for linking that! I enjoyed reading the responses and also the Kurt Vonnegut passage linked within, such a great connection to how we think.
wwweston 3y ago
> Use tools, of course "Tools are the subtlest of traps. We become reliant upon them and in their absence we are vulnerable, weak, defenseless..."
- chasing 3y ago
  Eh, or they just save time and headache. I'd much rather type on a computer than write longhand in notebooks.

__MatrixMan__ 3y ago

I made a up a word to differentiate the boilerplate/canned/whatever activity to the personal-growth oriented one: ---- Righting. verb. 1. writing to change the way the world is oriented > I resolve to continue righting until the wrongs go away. 2. writing to change the way oneself is oriented > I resolve to continue righting until I'm not wrong anymore. ---- Ambiguity in usage being more or less the point.

psychlops 3y ago

> It'd be like buying a robot to go to the gym and move weights up and down — sorta misses the point. As a lazy writer who never skips legs day, I appreciate this comment. It inspires me to write more than snarky snippets online.

oh_sigh 3y ago

But what if AI will write a more compelling paragraph than you ever could, even if you devoted your life to writing? So it might only be people who use AI who get their personal thoughts and ideas out into the world.

chasing 3y ago
I wrote: "Use tools, of course, but don't let them do the hard part for you." I didn't say I was opposed to using the AI tools. I'm opposed to using them to think for you — to do the "hard part." If they help with a turn-of-phrase or vocabulary or structure or whatever then they're just a more advanced version of tools people already use for those things.

sva_ 3y ago

In contrast, > If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows. - Plato Although this is different, because it is still written, just not by oneself, which probably makes the effect of relying on it and forgetting even worse.

ecshafer 3y ago
Plato here is often brought out as a counter example for why saying a technology will damage cognition is obviously wrong, but I don't think its that simple. Writing and the proliferation of knowledge is an obvious good, but I think plato is otherwise correct here. Societies without reading and writing seem to have people who are able to memorize much larger amounts of information, the early muslims memorized the koran at first, which is quite a feat, before writing it down. A more accurate view is that there are trade offs.
chasing 3y ago
I guess I disagree with Plato, unless he's talking about how I no longer know anyone's phone numbers off the top of my head. I think it's fairly well established that when you think about a topic well enough to generate ideas and put them on the page that you also cement those ideas in your mind. If you want to remember something you read (or see or do), write about it. In your own words.

nickfromseattle 3y ago

> or marketing copy I don't think marketing copy deserves to be grouped with 'boilerplate' and 'canned responses'. It takes a lot of brain power to create marketing copy that isn't boilerplate / canned / generic. Good marketing copy persuades people to take a specific action, and figuring out what this takes just as much critical thinking, iteration, and getting your reps in as any other compelling content. Which is why most marketing copy feels bland / generic / boilerplate / canned. It's not easy.

pazimzadeh 3y ago

Writing is a form of thinking. It only takes one or two manic episodes to realize that they're not always super correlated.

waboremo 3y ago
Don't even need manic episodes to understand this (and if you went through one I'm terribly sorry, they can be such cruel events people disregard), music is a good example. You can be so profoundly moved by a song in an entirely different language you don't understand not because of writing, but because of what the person conveys through sound. Instruments as another example of this. What our thoughts are made up of visuals (shapes, lights), feelings, and sounds. Not words, however words are convenient shortcuts to communication so we use them a lot. This is part of why we continue trying to understand animals. It's also why multilingual people will have these jarring stops in speaking/writing, and struggle to connect those visuals/feelings/sounds in their mind to the expression (speaking/writing). It's literally the reason that "love" is so elusive to us. Despite numerous people trying their best over centuries to express it in writing, music, art, etc. it's still this profound feeling we feel has endless potential. We know it's just brain signals, and yet it continues to be deeply embedded in our thoughts.
- pazimzadeh 3y ago
  I totally agree with you. Had a similar discussion in a previous thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35683027 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35683027
  - waboremo 3y ago
    Thank you for linking that! I enjoyed reading the responses and also the Kurt Vonnegut passage linked within, such a great connection to how we think.

wwweston 3y ago

> Use tools, of course "Tools are the subtlest of traps. We become reliant upon them and in their absence we are vulnerable, weak, defenseless..."

chasing 3y ago
Eh, or they just save time and headache. I'd much rather type on a computer than write longhand in notebooks.