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> Even if you make more than most workers, you're still getting robbed of the true value of your labor. I used to think that way too. For years. Until I realiz

> Even if you make more than most workers, you're still getting robbed of the true value of your labor. I used to think that way too. For years. Until I realized that's never been how labor is valued. Ever. Let's dispense with this fantasy. There's also a disconnect. Very few people value what they buy in stores this way. We don't care what it cost to manufacture what we buy. We just care what other stores sell it for. If all the other stores are selling it cheaper, then this store is charging more than it's worth. People pay for product. People pay for services. To first order the pricing model is the same. And of course as another commenter said: Try starting your own business and earning 150k. I bet 95% of readers here are incapable of it. Ignore unicorn startups and listen to How I Built This. It's quite common that for several years the founders earn little. All they have is equity they can't liquidate. For years they have to pay employees a lot more than they themselves make and give them employee rights that they themselves don't have. If you look across all businesses in the US, earning 150k puts you better off than 90% of business owners. The deck is in favor of employees, not business owners.

groby_b 4y ago
So close. SO CLOSE. The deck is in favor of massive inequality. This expresses in different ways. For many employees, it's exploitative workplaces. (These exploitative places are very often large companies - it turns out smaller companies usually have a sense of "together" that makes this harder). For many new businesses, it's an extremely harsh environment with low survival rates. A large part of that is that the environment is controlled by large companies and their owners. There's a price to massive scale, and it seems we've chosen to pay it as massive inequality.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Yes engineers are on the side that's benefiting from the inequality. Virtually all societies with less inequality pay engineers less.
thsbrown 4y ago
Preach! Been a self employed game developer for almost 10 years now. I think a lot of people fail to realize how incredibly hard it is to make a product (even a great one) and make a reasonable profit from it. It takes a lot of patience, learning and failure. Even after 10 years I still feel like there's so much more to learn to get to where I want to go.
falcolas 4y ago
> that's never been how labor is valued Unless you're a professional sportsball player, C-suite executive, actor, etc... There's a number of labor jobs who haven't put capital into the business yet who receive compensation in line with the value they bring to the companies. What we're lacking to receive the same is leverage, because unions have been defanged and discredited in our current times.
- slt2021 4y ago
  as a regular worker bee you cannot have benefits of CEO's job without risks & efforts of becoming and working as CEO. same reason why sports school teacher cannot be paid NFL player's salary, despite both of them engaging in "sports". high compensation - you have to compete for it, earn it, and prove everyday that you deserve it, you cannot demand handouts with your sole argument being some sort of "fairness"
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    > as a regular worker bee you cannot have benefits of CEO's job without risks & efforts of becoming and working as CEO I'd love the "risk" of failing up. Do the golden parachute and handcuffs come with that package?
    - slt2021 4y ago
      plenty of regular workers fail up as well, the whole "jump ship every two years" culture of software engineers is essentially failing up, without getting promotion at existing job. same with rsu packages
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Sorry, I'm having trouble connecting your comment to mine. > Unless you're a professional sportsball player, C-suite executive, actor, etc.. How are these folks valued in a manner different from what my comment states?

groby_b 4y ago

So close. SO CLOSE. The deck is in favor of massive inequality. This expresses in different ways. For many employees, it's exploitative workplaces. (These exploitative places are very often large companies - it turns out smaller companies usually have a sense of "together" that makes this harder). For many new businesses, it's an extremely harsh environment with low survival rates. A large part of that is that the environment is controlled by large companies and their owners. There's a price to massive scale, and it seems we've chosen to pay it as massive inequality.

BeetleB 4y ago
Yes engineers are on the side that's benefiting from the inequality. Virtually all societies with less inequality pay engineers less.

thsbrown 4y ago

Preach! Been a self employed game developer for almost 10 years now. I think a lot of people fail to realize how incredibly hard it is to make a product (even a great one) and make a reasonable profit from it. It takes a lot of patience, learning and failure. Even after 10 years I still feel like there's so much more to learn to get to where I want to go.

falcolas 4y ago

> that's never been how labor is valued Unless you're a professional sportsball player, C-suite executive, actor, etc... There's a number of labor jobs who haven't put capital into the business yet who receive compensation in line with the value they bring to the companies. What we're lacking to receive the same is leverage, because unions have been defanged and discredited in our current times.

slt2021 4y ago
as a regular worker bee you cannot have benefits of CEO's job without risks & efforts of becoming and working as CEO. same reason why sports school teacher cannot be paid NFL player's salary, despite both of them engaging in "sports". high compensation - you have to compete for it, earn it, and prove everyday that you deserve it, you cannot demand handouts with your sole argument being some sort of "fairness"
- drewcoo 4y ago
  > as a regular worker bee you cannot have benefits of CEO's job without risks & efforts of becoming and working as CEO I'd love the "risk" of failing up. Do the golden parachute and handcuffs come with that package?
  - slt2021 4y ago
    plenty of regular workers fail up as well, the whole "jump ship every two years" culture of software engineers is essentially failing up, without getting promotion at existing job. same with rsu packages
BeetleB 4y ago
Sorry, I'm having trouble connecting your comment to mine. > Unless you're a professional sportsball player, C-suite executive, actor, etc.. How are these folks valued in a manner different from what my comment states?