3 ms·

I agree with your fundamental point, but I find this quote somewhat confusing when applied to this conversation. Surely there are people who would have an equal

I agree with your fundamental point, but I find this quote somewhat confusing when applied to this conversation. Surely there are people who would have an equally great negative impact on humanity were they not working in a sweatshop, too?

wolfgang42 3y ago
"Thomas Midgley Jr. could've been thwarted by worse labor conditions" is certainly an interesting take.
- trefoiled 3y ago
  That’s a particularly hilarious way to frame it but also an interesting person to pick considering he was born into a family of inventors and had the resources to attend an ivy league. Quite literally humanity might be much better off had he not had an opportunity to innovate. To clarify my point, it just feels odd to hear a purely utilitarian argument against slavery, which hinges on some kind of implied rule of nature that equality can only result in more altruistic geniuses benefitting the greater good -without taking into account all the very intelligent people who, with the best of intentions, have set us on our supposed course towards apocalypse. Because the argument is utilitarian, it can be dismissed with theoretically advantageous results of slavery, which is beyond the pale for me personally.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    There were people at the time who pushed back against Midgley and his employer with respect to leaded gasoline. The power differential overwhelmed their criticisms for decades until years after Patterson definitely proved how bad it was. A utilitarian argument in favor of a flatter power landscape is that such a landscape may have stopped tetraethyl lead, at least for automobiles and house paints. Whether or not this would have caught CFCs, I don't know.
rtkwe 3y ago
Sure but the trouble in applying that is that we need a level of precognition of people's future activities that's just not possible. Better to give everyone a path out of horrible labor conditions and deal with the bad eggs down stream of that where we actually know who they are through either structuring society so they don't have the pressures to commit crimes or through whatever version of incarceration and rehabilitation we can figure out.

wolfgang42 3y ago

"Thomas Midgley Jr. could've been thwarted by worse labor conditions" is certainly an interesting take.

trefoiled 3y ago
That’s a particularly hilarious way to frame it but also an interesting person to pick considering he was born into a family of inventors and had the resources to attend an ivy league. Quite literally humanity might be much better off had he not had an opportunity to innovate. To clarify my point, it just feels odd to hear a purely utilitarian argument against slavery, which hinges on some kind of implied rule of nature that equality can only result in more altruistic geniuses benefitting the greater good -without taking into account all the very intelligent people who, with the best of intentions, have set us on our supposed course towards apocalypse. Because the argument is utilitarian, it can be dismissed with theoretically advantageous results of slavery, which is beyond the pale for me personally.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  There were people at the time who pushed back against Midgley and his employer with respect to leaded gasoline. The power differential overwhelmed their criticisms for decades until years after Patterson definitely proved how bad it was. A utilitarian argument in favor of a flatter power landscape is that such a landscape may have stopped tetraethyl lead, at least for automobiles and house paints. Whether or not this would have caught CFCs, I don't know.

rtkwe 3y ago

Sure but the trouble in applying that is that we need a level of precognition of people's future activities that's just not possible. Better to give everyone a path out of horrible labor conditions and deal with the bad eggs down stream of that where we actually know who they are through either structuring society so they don't have the pressures to commit crimes or through whatever version of incarceration and rehabilitation we can figure out.