4 ms·

There is no evidence that the pandemic was a man-made disaster.

qclibre22 3y ago
High levels of concern in the Chinese government in Fall of 2019 about goings on at WIV are certainly interesting, though circumstantial evidence. On the flip side, there's is little evidence that it wasn't a man-made disaster.
newZWhoDis 3y ago
These waters are incredibly muddy. - the virus could have been 100% natural, in containment at a lab that was accidentally mishandled and then exposed to a huge population center. This would be a man-made disaster - the virus could have been man-altered, as in naturally evolved via man-directed evolution and the escape could have happened. - the virus could have been edited, “artificial” in this sense, then escaped - the virus could have been edited and intentionally released - the virus could have been natural and intentionally released - the actor is not monolithic, a rogue employee could have maliciously acted to expose people while the broader entity covered it up to save face There are a lot of variables here, but all we know for sure is that the Chinese government has worked hard to conceal the truth and that ground zero is suspiciously close to a research lab studying these specific virus types. We also know that, unlike most other pandemics at this point, no preexisting natural reservoir of CV19 has been found. Make of that what you will.
TrainedMonkey 3y ago
What do you define as evidence and man-made here? From what I understand there was a large amount of circumstantial evidence (next to a lab researching similar viruses with a history of poor sample handling) as well as enormous amount of pressure on scientific community to say whatever avoids escalating geo political tensions...
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Here [1] is a non-comprehensive list of various lab leaks. Even high security facilities quite regularly leak, which is one of the endless reasons that experimenting with these viruses is one of the most unbelievably stupid things we could be doing. An employee in the Netherlands was infected with polio last year, the year prior to that Taiwan had a COVID lab leak. Since 2000 the US has had no fewer than 16 different lab leaks, and you can add Japan, Singapore, Russia, Hungary, Australia, UK, Germany, and more to the list as well. All since 2000 if that wasn't clear. And many of these incidents were playing with some various serious diseases - ebola, anthrax, meningitis, and let's not forget just finding 6 vials of live smallpox virus by a worker cleaning at a freezer at a Merck facility, in the US, in 2014. The problem is not incompetence - the problem is the arrogance to think we can overcome these issues with competence, in spite of the absolutely extensive evidence of the fact that this is plainly false. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...
jeremyjh 3y ago
1. They were trying to create this virus in Wuhan 2. It emerged in Wuhan 3. The Chinese government made it impossible for independent parties to examine the origin. > no evidence I am not certain this was a man-made disaster, but you simply have no credibility making the statements you are making.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Another rather important point #4 is no animal has been found as a viable transmission source. The closest relative to COVID, though still not a viable source, was found in bats located some 1000 miles away from Wuhan. Incidentally this has all been true from day one as well, which made the censorship and propaganda as dystopic as usual.

High levels of concern in the Chinese government in Fall of 2019 about goings on at WIV are certainly interesting, though circumstantial evidence. On the flip side, there's is little evidence that it wasn't a man-made disaster.

newZWhoDis 3y ago

These waters are incredibly muddy. - the virus could have been 100% natural, in containment at a lab that was accidentally mishandled and then exposed to a huge population center. This would be a man-made disaster - the virus could have been man-altered, as in naturally evolved via man-directed evolution and the escape could have happened. - the virus could have been edited, “artificial” in this sense, then escaped - the virus could have been edited and intentionally released - the virus could have been natural and intentionally released - the actor is not monolithic, a rogue employee could have maliciously acted to expose people while the broader entity covered it up to save face There are a lot of variables here, but all we know for sure is that the Chinese government has worked hard to conceal the truth and that ground zero is suspiciously close to a research lab studying these specific virus types. We also know that, unlike most other pandemics at this point, no preexisting natural reservoir of CV19 has been found. Make of that what you will.

TrainedMonkey 3y ago

What do you define as evidence and man-made here? From what I understand there was a large amount of circumstantial evidence (next to a lab researching similar viruses with a history of poor sample handling) as well as enormous amount of pressure on scientific community to say whatever avoids escalating geo political tensions...

somenameforme 3y ago
Here [1] is a non-comprehensive list of various lab leaks. Even high security facilities quite regularly leak, which is one of the endless reasons that experimenting with these viruses is one of the most unbelievably stupid things we could be doing. An employee in the Netherlands was infected with polio last year, the year prior to that Taiwan had a COVID lab leak. Since 2000 the US has had no fewer than 16 different lab leaks, and you can add Japan, Singapore, Russia, Hungary, Australia, UK, Germany, and more to the list as well. All since 2000 if that wasn't clear. And many of these incidents were playing with some various serious diseases - ebola, anthrax, meningitis, and let's not forget just finding 6 vials of live smallpox virus by a worker cleaning at a freezer at a Merck facility, in the US, in 2014. The problem is not incompetence - the problem is the arrogance to think we can overcome these issues with competence, in spite of the absolutely extensive evidence of the fact that this is plainly false. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...

jeremyjh 3y ago

1. They were trying to create this virus in Wuhan 2. It emerged in Wuhan 3. The Chinese government made it impossible for independent parties to examine the origin. > no evidence I am not certain this was a man-made disaster, but you simply have no credibility making the statements you are making.

somenameforme 3y ago
Another rather important point #4 is no animal has been found as a viable transmission source. The closest relative to COVID, though still not a viable source, was found in bats located some 1000 miles away from Wuhan. Incidentally this has all been true from day one as well, which made the censorship and propaganda as dystopic as usual.