6 ms·

What would it even mean if we created covid 19 in a lab and it was accidentally released? Would it change anything? Would anyone be held responsible?

echelon 3y ago
A seriously creepy thought that I've had (that I certainly don't agree with) - It could be a way for governments to quickly and affordably "cull the herd" of expensive to support elders, immune compromised, sick, and infirm individuals. In doing so, it would free up capital, resources, housing, jobs, etc. for the younger workforce. This is of course only a creative musing, not a proposal for an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.
- shri_krishna 3y ago
  "I try not to think about it too much. But I have guns, gold, potassium iodide, antibiotics, batteries, water, gas masks from the Israeli Defense Force, and a big patch of land in Big Sur I can fly to" [1] - Sam Altman, OpenAI [1]: https://futurism.com/the-byte/openai-ceo-survivalist-prepper https://futurism.com/the-byte/openai-ceo-survivalist-prepper
  - 462436347 3y ago
    I can't for the life of me understand the personality cult of Sam Altman. He gives off sociopathic vibes, and looks (probably thanks to plastic surgery) creepy.
    - dudeDDRrulez 3y ago
      WEF Young Global Leader, class of 2016
water554 3y ago
It's important that people know the truth.
rngname22 3y ago
In an ideal world, we'd realize through cost benefit analysis that seeking out novel strains of animal viruses and bringing samples of them back to labs, especially in an era where lab leaks are common (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...), and then further doing gain of function research on those viruses to enhance them for further testing, might not be the best idea. At least until we had better methods of securing such facilities.
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  I think the arrogance of thinking its possible to do this research safely with any containment procedures is ridiculous. Yes, you can make the chances of a leak extremely minimal, but you can't rule it out when humans are involved and the consequences are so extraordinary that there just isn't an acceptable trade-off.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    Fully automated underground bunkers stocked with precursor pathogens and humanized lab rats equipped with firebombs with the intention of complete evisceration at conclusion of experiment. Dig a deep hole in the desert crane drop in the prepared apparatus wait for experiment results, burn it all down. None of these precautions would prevent someone from using the results of the experiment for ill purposes.
    - jeremyjh 3y ago
      Yes but there is a lot of waste in a system like that and after 10 years of spotless safety record the MBAs will start dismantling it, like re-using facilities instead of firebombing, and the re-fitting inevitably requires some humans on-site etc.
      - peteradio 3y ago
        Ok, so put a big fence around it and then find a way to turn people into zombies and fill the fence with said zombies so nobody would even dare go inside the fence.
droopyEyelids 3y ago
On a very basic and obvious level, it'd change the protocols required to work with the virus. Researchers and organizations would take safety more seriously.
fallingknife 3y ago
It's China so someone would be held responsible. Exactly who would be a matter of political expediency more so than actual responsibility. I would speculate that if it were lab created, having access to the initial genetic material and procedure that was used to create it would be of great scientific value in understanding how viruses jump species.
lvass 3y ago
Someone would say "business as usual", somewhere.
LinuxBender 3y ago
What would it even mean if we created covid 19 in a lab and it was accidentally released? Perhaps this may provide enough precedence to codify more specific laws, regulations, certifications, liabilities and consequences that affect funding availability, multiple levels of insurance requirements and lab safety requirements. Additionally there could also be more consequences for side-stepping direction from leadership to cease and desist research in a particular area when the risk was already deemed too great. The attitube of "It's easier to say sorry than it is to say please" should not apply to high risk research regardless of how much money could be potentially gained. In my opinion this is important to address sooner than later. Covid may be a short walk in the park compared to the risk we are about to experience with Precision Medicine [1] also known as dual-use biology. Would anyone be held responsible? Proving intent is difficult without emails, contracts, voice conversations, etc... Even if these audit trails existed it is more likely to be covered up to protect all nations involved from international blow-back. More likely these people may be quietly found negligent and lose the ability to fund or manage future projects. They and their associates become a toxic investment risk thus possibly discouraging future behavior assuming only negligence was involved. A new set of people take their place and the world rinses and repeats. I can not prove intent but I can see incentive. One need only watch V for Vendetta to see the parallels. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35734114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35734114
phkahler 3y ago
>> What would it even mean if we created covid 19 in a lab and it was accidentally released? Would it change anything? Would anyone be held responsible? Nothing. No. and No. "Scientists" were proposing research that would create essentially the Covid19 virus. I'm not sure if they ever got funded, but maybe that was being carried out at the Wuhan lab. The facts are: people wanted to create Covid19 (or something nearly like it). We found out what can happen if that type of thing gets out (whether it occurred naturally or in a lab). Those same people want to carry on with exactly the kind of "research" they were doing before, as if we've learned nothing from a global pandemic caused by a virus just like the ones they want to play with. The fact we can't prove Covid19 came from a lab is beside the point. Given what people are working on, it may as well have been a lab leak since the result would be essentially identical to what happened, and they refuse to understand that - quite intentionally it seems.

echelon 3y ago

A seriously creepy thought that I've had (that I certainly don't agree with) - It could be a way for governments to quickly and affordably "cull the herd" of expensive to support elders, immune compromised, sick, and infirm individuals. In doing so, it would free up capital, resources, housing, jobs, etc. for the younger workforce. This is of course only a creative musing, not a proposal for an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.

shri_krishna 3y ago
"I try not to think about it too much. But I have guns, gold, potassium iodide, antibiotics, batteries, water, gas masks from the Israeli Defense Force, and a big patch of land in Big Sur I can fly to" [1] - Sam Altman, OpenAI [1]: https://futurism.com/the-byte/openai-ceo-survivalist-prepper https://futurism.com/the-byte/openai-ceo-survivalist-prepper
- 462436347 3y ago
  I can't for the life of me understand the personality cult of Sam Altman. He gives off sociopathic vibes, and looks (probably thanks to plastic surgery) creepy.
  - dudeDDRrulez 3y ago
    WEF Young Global Leader, class of 2016

water554 3y ago

It's important that people know the truth.

rngname22 3y ago

In an ideal world, we'd realize through cost benefit analysis that seeking out novel strains of animal viruses and bringing samples of them back to labs, especially in an era where lab leaks are common (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity...), and then further doing gain of function research on those viruses to enhance them for further testing, might not be the best idea. At least until we had better methods of securing such facilities.

jeremyjh 3y ago
I think the arrogance of thinking its possible to do this research safely with any containment procedures is ridiculous. Yes, you can make the chances of a leak extremely minimal, but you can't rule it out when humans are involved and the consequences are so extraordinary that there just isn't an acceptable trade-off.
- peteradio 3y ago
  Fully automated underground bunkers stocked with precursor pathogens and humanized lab rats equipped with firebombs with the intention of complete evisceration at conclusion of experiment. Dig a deep hole in the desert crane drop in the prepared apparatus wait for experiment results, burn it all down. None of these precautions would prevent someone from using the results of the experiment for ill purposes.
  - jeremyjh 3y ago
    Yes but there is a lot of waste in a system like that and after 10 years of spotless safety record the MBAs will start dismantling it, like re-using facilities instead of firebombing, and the re-fitting inevitably requires some humans on-site etc.
    - peteradio 3y ago
      Ok, so put a big fence around it and then find a way to turn people into zombies and fill the fence with said zombies so nobody would even dare go inside the fence.

droopyEyelids 3y ago

On a very basic and obvious level, it'd change the protocols required to work with the virus. Researchers and organizations would take safety more seriously.

fallingknife 3y ago

It's China so someone would be held responsible. Exactly who would be a matter of political expediency more so than actual responsibility. I would speculate that if it were lab created, having access to the initial genetic material and procedure that was used to create it would be of great scientific value in understanding how viruses jump species.

lvass 3y ago

Someone would say "business as usual", somewhere.

LinuxBender 3y ago

What would it even mean if we created covid 19 in a lab and it was accidentally released? Perhaps this may provide enough precedence to codify more specific laws, regulations, certifications, liabilities and consequences that affect funding availability, multiple levels of insurance requirements and lab safety requirements. Additionally there could also be more consequences for side-stepping direction from leadership to cease and desist research in a particular area when the risk was already deemed too great. The attitube of "It's easier to say sorry than it is to say please" should not apply to high risk research regardless of how much money could be potentially gained. In my opinion this is important to address sooner than later. Covid may be a short walk in the park compared to the risk we are about to experience with Precision Medicine [1] also known as dual-use biology. Would anyone be held responsible? Proving intent is difficult without emails, contracts, voice conversations, etc... Even if these audit trails existed it is more likely to be covered up to protect all nations involved from international blow-back. More likely these people may be quietly found negligent and lose the ability to fund or manage future projects. They and their associates become a toxic investment risk thus possibly discouraging future behavior assuming only negligence was involved. A new set of people take their place and the world rinses and repeats. I can not prove intent but I can see incentive. One need only watch V for Vendetta to see the parallels. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35734114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35734114

phkahler 3y ago

>> What would it even mean if we created covid 19 in a lab and it was accidentally released? Would it change anything? Would anyone be held responsible? Nothing. No. and No. "Scientists" were proposing research that would create essentially the Covid19 virus. I'm not sure if they ever got funded, but maybe that was being carried out at the Wuhan lab. The facts are: people wanted to create Covid19 (or something nearly like it). We found out what can happen if that type of thing gets out (whether it occurred naturally or in a lab). Those same people want to carry on with exactly the kind of "research" they were doing before, as if we've learned nothing from a global pandemic caused by a virus just like the ones they want to play with. The fact we can't prove Covid19 came from a lab is beside the point. Given what people are working on, it may as well have been a lab leak since the result would be essentially identical to what happened, and they refuse to understand that - quite intentionally it seems.