6 ms·

The better predictor would be the parents' wealth.

by whitemary 3y ago

robertlagrant 3y ago
It'd be interesting to see citations for this.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Parental wealth is a superior predicator of success than intelligence. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ EDIT: Genetics do play a part though! https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191218153459.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191218153459.h... > The study, led by the University of York, found that parents' socioeconomic status and children's inherited DNA differences are powerful predictors of educational achievement. > However, the research suggests that having the genes for school success is not as beneficial as having parents who are highly educated and wealthy. Only 47% of children in the study sample with a high genetic propensity for education but a poorer background made it to university, compared with 62% with a low genetic propensity but parents that are more affluent. > The researchers found that children with a high genetic propensity for education who were also from wealthy and well-educated family backgrounds had the greatest advantage with 77% going to University. Meanwhile, only 21% of children from families with low socioeconomic status and low genetic propensity carried on into higher education.
  - theclansman 3y ago
    That sounds pretty obvious but it has nothing to do with IQ.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    "Success is basically how educated you are" - A group of people who have spent decades of time and hundreds of thousands of dollars on education
    - theclansman 3y ago
      They have to call it success, otherwise it would be a useless study telling you that people with more money go to school for more years.
  - jlawson 3y ago
    We were talking about predicting IQ. Now you're talking about predicting 'success' (which you assumed equates to wealth/education - funny, that). It's not surprising that wealth/education predicts wealth/education, but that's not what we're talking about. Also it may be intelligence predicting education even better than wealth: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/11/intelligence-predicts-educational-achievement-pretty-well.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/11/in...
- prettyStandard 3y ago
  So I can't speak to this specifically but I think it's well known reading to children when they're young improves their IQ. And that sounds pretty believable to me. In the formative years if you give the brain good info it's going to learn how to operate well. I know this is hand wavy, but I think wealth can be a proxy measure for a good home life in the formative years. So sorry I have no citations, but I find it pretty believable.
  - rozularen 3y ago
    what is considered good readings for children? genuinely curious
    - GalenErso 3y ago
      The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings come to mind.
    - prettyStandard 3y ago
      So not too long ago I think I figured out why people read fiction. I couldn't understand it, why would you want to know stories that weren't true? I think it's all about the social intelligence. True stories are what they are whether they're good or not. Fiction stories can be whatever the author wants them to be, so they can craft them for maximum drama. Hence why they might be good for diving into social and emotional intelligence. So if you read fiction stories to a child you might have a lot to work with to teach them how to read people and how to interpret their emotions.
      - fullstop 3y ago
        I think that you're significantly over-analyzing this. People read fiction because it's enjoyable, they like to have their imagination tickled, and it doesn't have to be tuned for maximum drama. This is like saying that you now understand why people would watch a movie which wasn't a documentary. People, in general, implicitly learn how to read people and their emotions without coaching -- it's a natural part of being human for most. Autistic people, of course, are the exception here.
sokoloff 3y ago
That's certainly a possibility and worthy of testing as a hypothesis. Income and IQ hold a positive correlation for the vast majority of the population. (I think the same is true of wealth, given the highly positive correlation for most of the population between income and wealth.)
theclansman 3y ago
Everything plays a role but genetics is the most defining factor.
- Taters91 3y ago
  This is wrong
- GalenErso 3y ago
  I'll cut straight to the chase: White people are _not_ more intelligent than black people. And it is both factually incorrect and racist to believe so. - "I never said white people were mo--" Sure, but that is nevertheless the belief held by 99% of the people who think that some ethnicities are inherently more intelligent than others. It's a reasonable assumption that that is what you think.
  - xyzzy4747 3y ago
    But Ashkenazi Jews are undoubtedly more intelligent than both. They also end up with a disproportionate amount of over-performers across the arts, sciences, finance, media, and entrepreneurship.
    - GalenErso 3y ago
      Can't their success be more attributed to a culture that favors learning and education, as well as the relative financial prosperity of Ashkenazi Jews compared to other groups? That the children of successful artists, scientists, or financiers become successful artists, scientists and financiers themselves is least surprising.
      - Workaccount2 3y ago
        It's also least surprising that a group of abnormally intelligent people finds themselves perpetually ending up in positions of wealth and power.
      - xyzzy4747 3y ago
xyzzy4747 3y ago
[flagged]
timmg 3y ago
Would IQ be a confounding variable with wealth? Maybe I'm using the wrong term, but: a smarter person would (in many cases) make more money.
- prettyStandard 3y ago
  I understand work ethic to be a better predictor of wealth than intelligence. You can imagine a lots of smart slacker not living up to their potential.
  - timmg 3y ago
    I'm sure there is a combination of factors. Work ethic without intelligence probably limits your earning potential. Intelligence without work ethic also does. An interesting study would be: is work ethic inherited (either genetically or culturally). It would be another confounder here, I think.
    - prettyStandard 3y ago
      To work ethic without intelligence: yes I agree. The way I look at it is: Your intelligence puts a ceiling on what types of success you can have, your work ethic determines how far you will go with your chosen path. Probably not everything, but I believe it could be correlated with testosterone. I'm sure that has a genetic, diet, and environmental component to it. So right away I can say: yes. https://youtu.be/bJWmJo3w_0Y https://youtu.be/bJWmJo3w_0Y
  - evilduck 3y ago
    It's gotta be a mix of several factors. You can also imagine a bunch of idiots with grit.

The better predictor would be the parents' wealth.

robertlagrant 3y ago

It'd be interesting to see citations for this.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Parental wealth is a superior predicator of success than intelligence. https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/schooled2lose/ EDIT: Genetics do play a part though! https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191218153459.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191218153459.h... > The study, led by the University of York, found that parents' socioeconomic status and children's inherited DNA differences are powerful predictors of educational achievement. > However, the research suggests that having the genes for school success is not as beneficial as having parents who are highly educated and wealthy. Only 47% of children in the study sample with a high genetic propensity for education but a poorer background made it to university, compared with 62% with a low genetic propensity but parents that are more affluent. > The researchers found that children with a high genetic propensity for education who were also from wealthy and well-educated family backgrounds had the greatest advantage with 77% going to University. Meanwhile, only 21% of children from families with low socioeconomic status and low genetic propensity carried on into higher education.
- theclansman 3y ago
  That sounds pretty obvious but it has nothing to do with IQ.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- willcipriano 3y ago
  "Success is basically how educated you are" - A group of people who have spent decades of time and hundreds of thousands of dollars on education
  - theclansman 3y ago
    They have to call it success, otherwise it would be a useless study telling you that people with more money go to school for more years.
- jlawson 3y ago
  We were talking about predicting IQ. Now you're talking about predicting 'success' (which you assumed equates to wealth/education - funny, that). It's not surprising that wealth/education predicts wealth/education, but that's not what we're talking about. Also it may be intelligence predicting education even better than wealth: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/11/intelligence-predicts-educational-achievement-pretty-well.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/11/in...
prettyStandard 3y ago
So I can't speak to this specifically but I think it's well known reading to children when they're young improves their IQ. And that sounds pretty believable to me. In the formative years if you give the brain good info it's going to learn how to operate well. I know this is hand wavy, but I think wealth can be a proxy measure for a good home life in the formative years. So sorry I have no citations, but I find it pretty believable.
- rozularen 3y ago
  what is considered good readings for children? genuinely curious
  - GalenErso 3y ago
    The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings come to mind.
  - prettyStandard 3y ago
    So not too long ago I think I figured out why people read fiction. I couldn't understand it, why would you want to know stories that weren't true? I think it's all about the social intelligence. True stories are what they are whether they're good or not. Fiction stories can be whatever the author wants them to be, so they can craft them for maximum drama. Hence why they might be good for diving into social and emotional intelligence. So if you read fiction stories to a child you might have a lot to work with to teach them how to read people and how to interpret their emotions.
    - fullstop 3y ago
      I think that you're significantly over-analyzing this. People read fiction because it's enjoyable, they like to have their imagination tickled, and it doesn't have to be tuned for maximum drama. This is like saying that you now understand why people would watch a movie which wasn't a documentary. People, in general, implicitly learn how to read people and their emotions without coaching -- it's a natural part of being human for most. Autistic people, of course, are the exception here.

sokoloff 3y ago

That's certainly a possibility and worthy of testing as a hypothesis. Income and IQ hold a positive correlation for the vast majority of the population. (I think the same is true of wealth, given the highly positive correlation for most of the population between income and wealth.)

theclansman 3y ago

Everything plays a role but genetics is the most defining factor.

Taters91 3y ago
This is wrong
GalenErso 3y ago
I'll cut straight to the chase: White people are _not_ more intelligent than black people. And it is both factually incorrect and racist to believe so. - "I never said white people were mo--" Sure, but that is nevertheless the belief held by 99% of the people who think that some ethnicities are inherently more intelligent than others. It's a reasonable assumption that that is what you think.
- xyzzy4747 3y ago
  But Ashkenazi Jews are undoubtedly more intelligent than both. They also end up with a disproportionate amount of over-performers across the arts, sciences, finance, media, and entrepreneurship.
  - GalenErso 3y ago
    Can't their success be more attributed to a culture that favors learning and education, as well as the relative financial prosperity of Ashkenazi Jews compared to other groups? That the children of successful artists, scientists, or financiers become successful artists, scientists and financiers themselves is least surprising.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      It's also least surprising that a group of abnormally intelligent people finds themselves perpetually ending up in positions of wealth and power.
    - xyzzy4747 3y ago

xyzzy4747 3y ago

[flagged]

timmg 3y ago

Would IQ be a confounding variable with wealth? Maybe I'm using the wrong term, but: a smarter person would (in many cases) make more money.

prettyStandard 3y ago
I understand work ethic to be a better predictor of wealth than intelligence. You can imagine a lots of smart slacker not living up to their potential.
- timmg 3y ago
  I'm sure there is a combination of factors. Work ethic without intelligence probably limits your earning potential. Intelligence without work ethic also does. An interesting study would be: is work ethic inherited (either genetically or culturally). It would be another confounder here, I think.
  - prettyStandard 3y ago
    To work ethic without intelligence: yes I agree. The way I look at it is: Your intelligence puts a ceiling on what types of success you can have, your work ethic determines how far you will go with your chosen path. Probably not everything, but I believe it could be correlated with testosterone. I'm sure that has a genetic, diet, and environmental component to it. So right away I can say: yes. https://youtu.be/bJWmJo3w_0Y https://youtu.be/bJWmJo3w_0Y
- evilduck 3y ago
  It's gotta be a mix of several factors. You can also imagine a bunch of idiots with grit.