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I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? No, the brai

I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? No, the brain does not "replace written information with a pointer". I cannot tell you with complete confidence whether writing stuff down improves recall or diminishes it, but I can tell you that you can construct computer analogies in support of either case. I could posit that writing actually improves your memory, because the minute movements of your arm require more of your brain to compute, therefore creating more neural connections and possibilities of recall. This is likely just as wrong, but demonstrates that thinking up some vague explanation is insufficient to make a point about a system as complex as the human brain.

bayindirh 3y ago
> I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? No, because I literally don't remember my to do list after writing to my EDC notebook. The only thing I know is, it's in the notebook. So I only know the address of my to do list. I'm a literal sitting duck if I leave my notebook at home. > I cannot tell you with complete confidence whether writing stuff down improves recall or diminishes it ... I can tell you because I observe myself over 5+ years since I started to write my daily plans consistently to my notebook. > I could posit that writing actually improves your memory, because the minute movements of your arm require more of your brain to compute, therefore creating more neural connections and possibilities of recall. What it improves is not the "verbatim memory", but the concepts you work on. Working on something slowly, and with a reflection medium (i.e. pen & paper) allows your brain to refine the thing you're working on better and store it as a concept, rather than memorized string. > This is likely just as wrong, but demonstrates that thinking up some vague explanation is insufficient to make a point about a system as complex as the human brain. I have read a paper about supporting the claims I did in this comment, but I failed to find it in a whim. Will update/reply this comment if I find it. I use these analogies because of that paper.
Kim_Bruning 3y ago
A librarian might say they create a reference card, a web person might say they're creating a hyperlink. In all cases I think parent post is trying to communicate that they are putting the large mass of information elsewhere, and only retain a reference locally. (implementation details notwithstanding)
ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago
Fun fact about the biological machine is that we could maybe make it "replace written information with a pointer". In planarian worms we can use a voltage-sensitive dye to see a "memory" the cells will fallback to in case of injury and they regenerate based on that "memory", however we can alter that "memory" to say "build a worm with 2 heads" instead of the regular worm with head and tail [1]. [1] "Michael Levin - Plasticity without genetic change: bioelectric embryos & synthetic proto-organisms", https://youtu.be/5ChRM4CEWyg?t=1169 https://youtu.be/5ChRM4CEWyg?t=1169
TeMPOraL 3y ago
> I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? Why? Those are perfectly good parallels, and quite specific at that. Forgetting the thing, and replacing that memory with the memory of the location of that thing - that's an "indirect reference", i.e. a pointer in programming terms. > I cannot tell you with complete confidence whether writing stuff down improves recall or diminishes it, but I can tell you that you can construct computer analogies in support of either case. You can construct analogies to anything in support of anything, what matters is whether the analogy is bringing the reader towards or away from the truth. Also, even when you have two similar analogies pointing in opposite direction, that doesn't mean either is wrong - they may be talking about two different things. For instance: > I could posit that writing actually improves your memory, because the minute movements of your arm require more of your brain to compute, therefore creating more neural connections and possibilities of recall. I believe that to be true just as much as GP's pointer analogy. In fact, I attribute my learning of irregular verbs in English directly to my grandfather insisting I copy the verb table by hand several times. Doing it, I went from near-zero recall to near-perfect recall in two sessions (with each having me copy the table once or twice). Now the difference here is, in case of irregular verbs, I wanted to memorize them. The act of writing the information down myself somehow helped commit it to memory, perhaps because the brain was more focused, or because I was more invested, or a bit of both. In case of GP's (and mine too!) experience with TODO list, the act of writing serves the explicit purpose of getting the thing out of your head. This is the opposite of memorization - you literally want to forget about tasks you write down, so they stop circling around in your head, distracting and stressing you. Incidentally, when I write some TODOs by hand, I actually improve my immediate recall of them - should I try and check. But I don't, because I don't want to reinforce those thoughts. My brain understands, and before I know it, I no longer remember most of them in detail.
numbchuckskills 3y ago
[dead]
Bran_son 3y ago
The abstract idea of a 'pointer' is a piece of information to the location of some other information. It is not even an analogy - it is literally the same thing, differing only in implementation details.
passterby 3y ago
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bayindirh 3y ago

> I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? No, because I literally don't remember my to do list after writing to my EDC notebook. The only thing I know is, it's in the notebook. So I only know the address of my to do list. I'm a literal sitting duck if I leave my notebook at home. > I cannot tell you with complete confidence whether writing stuff down improves recall or diminishes it ... I can tell you because I observe myself over 5+ years since I started to write my daily plans consistently to my notebook. > I could posit that writing actually improves your memory, because the minute movements of your arm require more of your brain to compute, therefore creating more neural connections and possibilities of recall. What it improves is not the "verbatim memory", but the concepts you work on. Working on something slowly, and with a reflection medium (i.e. pen & paper) allows your brain to refine the thing you're working on better and store it as a concept, rather than memorized string. > This is likely just as wrong, but demonstrates that thinking up some vague explanation is insufficient to make a point about a system as complex as the human brain. I have read a paper about supporting the claims I did in this comment, but I failed to find it in a whim. Will update/reply this comment if I find it. I use these analogies because of that paper.

Kim_Bruning 3y ago

A librarian might say they create a reference card, a web person might say they're creating a hyperlink. In all cases I think parent post is trying to communicate that they are putting the large mass of information elsewhere, and only retain a reference locally. (implementation details notwithstanding)

ly3xqhl8g9 3y ago

Fun fact about the biological machine is that we could maybe make it "replace written information with a pointer". In planarian worms we can use a voltage-sensitive dye to see a "memory" the cells will fallback to in case of injury and they regenerate based on that "memory", however we can alter that "memory" to say "build a worm with 2 heads" instead of the regular worm with head and tail [1]. [1] "Michael Levin - Plasticity without genetic change: bioelectric embryos & synthetic proto-organisms", https://youtu.be/5ChRM4CEWyg?t=1169 https://youtu.be/5ChRM4CEWyg?t=1169

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> I know this is HN, but can we please stop drawing these vague parallels between basic programming concepts and the functioning of the human brain? Why? Those are perfectly good parallels, and quite specific at that. Forgetting the thing, and replacing that memory with the memory of the location of that thing - that's an "indirect reference", i.e. a pointer in programming terms. > I cannot tell you with complete confidence whether writing stuff down improves recall or diminishes it, but I can tell you that you can construct computer analogies in support of either case. You can construct analogies to anything in support of anything, what matters is whether the analogy is bringing the reader towards or away from the truth. Also, even when you have two similar analogies pointing in opposite direction, that doesn't mean either is wrong - they may be talking about two different things. For instance: > I could posit that writing actually improves your memory, because the minute movements of your arm require more of your brain to compute, therefore creating more neural connections and possibilities of recall. I believe that to be true just as much as GP's pointer analogy. In fact, I attribute my learning of irregular verbs in English directly to my grandfather insisting I copy the verb table by hand several times. Doing it, I went from near-zero recall to near-perfect recall in two sessions (with each having me copy the table once or twice). Now the difference here is, in case of irregular verbs, I wanted to memorize them. The act of writing the information down myself somehow helped commit it to memory, perhaps because the brain was more focused, or because I was more invested, or a bit of both. In case of GP's (and mine too!) experience with TODO list, the act of writing serves the explicit purpose of getting the thing out of your head. This is the opposite of memorization - you literally want to forget about tasks you write down, so they stop circling around in your head, distracting and stressing you. Incidentally, when I write some TODOs by hand, I actually improve my immediate recall of them - should I try and check. But I don't, because I don't want to reinforce those thoughts. My brain understands, and before I know it, I no longer remember most of them in detail.

numbchuckskills 3y ago

[dead]

Bran_son 3y ago

The abstract idea of a 'pointer' is a piece of information to the location of some other information. It is not even an analogy - it is literally the same thing, differing only in implementation details.

passterby 3y ago

[dead]