3 ms·

> It's important to remember that if you're working for a living, you're still working class. absolutely not. "the social group consisting primarily of people

> It's important to remember that if you're working for a living, you're still working class. absolutely not. "the social group consisting primarily of people who are employed in unskilled or semi-skilled manual or industrial work." ""Working class" is a socioeconomic term used to describe persons in a social class marked by jobs that provide low pay, require limited skill, " comparing software engineers with factory workers, etc. is incredibly out of touch. Most SE's wouldn't survive a week in hard labor work.

sublinear 3y ago
> Most SE's wouldn't survive a week in hard labor work. Respectfully, speak for yourself. This isn't as rare, or as difficult imo, as you think it is. I'm speaking from a lot of disadvantage. It is what it is. > require limited skill Isn't this site usually full of people whining about smooth talkers with no skill? I know I've whined a lot about that. Also is what it is. The world is only unforgiving to those with narrow perspectives. Generally, what you do for a living isn't as significant as what you learn and do with the experience gained. It's your choice to commit to what you do, or you can keep growing. Up to you.
- heywhatupboys 3y ago
  So, we agree now that software engineers are not working-class people by any common or accepted terminology?
  - sublinear 3y ago
    I still strongly reject your definition of "working class". It's not the common definition by many miles amongst many significant crowds.
    - vertis 3y ago
      It's a long term evolving thing > The working class is classically defined as that class which must sell its labour-power in order to survive.[0] It does go on to define working class as essentially blue collar workers, even highly skilled ones. Which would exclude software engineering. Though I think it should include anyone for which they aren't earning enough to eventually become financially independent through their labour. This would then include quite a number of white collar workers. Certainly there are software engineers outside the silicon valley bubble for which this is true, especially in parts of Asia and India. A good litmus test is if you feel you should join a union then you're probably working class and if you feel secure negotiating your own pay then you're probably not any more. Though I doubt this fits a traditional definition of working class. [0]: https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803124750836;jsessionid=86E9D3E9AD64418D104A6A6994842DFF https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority...

sublinear 3y ago

> Most SE's wouldn't survive a week in hard labor work. Respectfully, speak for yourself. This isn't as rare, or as difficult imo, as you think it is. I'm speaking from a lot of disadvantage. It is what it is. > require limited skill Isn't this site usually full of people whining about smooth talkers with no skill? I know I've whined a lot about that. Also is what it is. The world is only unforgiving to those with narrow perspectives. Generally, what you do for a living isn't as significant as what you learn and do with the experience gained. It's your choice to commit to what you do, or you can keep growing. Up to you.

heywhatupboys 3y ago
So, we agree now that software engineers are not working-class people by any common or accepted terminology?
- sublinear 3y ago
  I still strongly reject your definition of "working class". It's not the common definition by many miles amongst many significant crowds.
  - vertis 3y ago
    It's a long term evolving thing > The working class is classically defined as that class which must sell its labour-power in order to survive.[0] It does go on to define working class as essentially blue collar workers, even highly skilled ones. Which would exclude software engineering. Though I think it should include anyone for which they aren't earning enough to eventually become financially independent through their labour. This would then include quite a number of white collar workers. Certainly there are software engineers outside the silicon valley bubble for which this is true, especially in parts of Asia and India. A good litmus test is if you feel you should join a union then you're probably working class and if you feel secure negotiating your own pay then you're probably not any more. Though I doubt this fits a traditional definition of working class. [0]: https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803124750836;jsessionid=86E9D3E9AD64418D104A6A6994842DFF https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority...