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They might be right that spinning rust isn't going to be used for online storage due to the energy cost, but that doesn't mean it can't still be useful for offl

They might be right that spinning rust isn't going to be used for online storage due to the energy cost, but that doesn't mean it can't still be useful for offline storage. I'm not buying this.

hammyhavoc 3y ago
Well, at that point, why not LTO? Much better price-per-TB, despite initially comparatively expensive buy-in price for the drive/library.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  If you're not an enterprise user, LTO makes no financial sense whatsoever. In addition, it just isn't very convenient; it's not a random-access media. With a HDD, you can just plug it in, use rsync to update only things that have changed, unplug it, and set it on a shelf. The use case is entirely different.
midoridensha 3y ago
SSDs are useless for offline storage: if they aren't powered on and accessed often enough, the data just disappears. They're totally unsuitable for archiving.
- 112233 3y ago
  On a tangent: are there any data about nand data retention in low temperatures? Such as putting microsd in a freezer at -15°C ?
- abvaw 3y ago
  Whaaa? How much time? Does this also apply to SD cards and such?
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Here's a link I found with a quick google search: https://www.minitool.com/partition-disk/what-happens-to-data-on-ssd-when-power-is-lost.html https://www.minitool.com/partition-disk/what-happens-to-data... According to this, JEDEC Solid State Technology Association's standard is that SSDs should be able to retain data for 1 year at 30C. Not great for an archival medium. Here's a Quora discussion about it: https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-SSD-store-data-without-power-Can-data-be-recovered-from-SSD https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-SSD-store-data-without-po... Vendors will claim much better numbers than this, but the standard isn't very good.
    - ridgered4 3y ago
      It is also not at all clear what is needed to "top up" an offline SSD to assure the data is maintained. Some people say that merely connecting the drive to power for a few minutes to hours lets it restore the fading bits but others think nothing but a full rewrite of the data will. I haven't seen any official information or testing on this either so the conservative rewrite assumption seems the most reasonable.
silisili 3y ago
What's big in offline storage these days? I did some work for UPS in the 2000s, and they used giant tape reels. Is that still the norm?

They might be right that spinning rust isn't going to be used for online storage due to the energy cost, but that doesn't mean it can't still be useful for offline storage. I'm not buying this.

hammyhavoc 3y ago

Well, at that point, why not LTO? Much better price-per-TB, despite initially comparatively expensive buy-in price for the drive/library.

midoridensha 3y ago
If you're not an enterprise user, LTO makes no financial sense whatsoever. In addition, it just isn't very convenient; it's not a random-access media. With a HDD, you can just plug it in, use rsync to update only things that have changed, unplug it, and set it on a shelf. The use case is entirely different.

midoridensha 3y ago

SSDs are useless for offline storage: if they aren't powered on and accessed often enough, the data just disappears. They're totally unsuitable for archiving.

112233 3y ago
On a tangent: are there any data about nand data retention in low temperatures? Such as putting microsd in a freezer at -15°C ?
abvaw 3y ago
Whaaa? How much time? Does this also apply to SD cards and such?
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Here's a link I found with a quick google search: https://www.minitool.com/partition-disk/what-happens-to-data-on-ssd-when-power-is-lost.html https://www.minitool.com/partition-disk/what-happens-to-data... According to this, JEDEC Solid State Technology Association's standard is that SSDs should be able to retain data for 1 year at 30C. Not great for an archival medium. Here's a Quora discussion about it: https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-SSD-store-data-without-power-Can-data-be-recovered-from-SSD https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-SSD-store-data-without-po... Vendors will claim much better numbers than this, but the standard isn't very good.
  - ridgered4 3y ago
    It is also not at all clear what is needed to "top up" an offline SSD to assure the data is maintained. Some people say that merely connecting the drive to power for a few minutes to hours lets it restore the fading bits but others think nothing but a full rewrite of the data will. I haven't seen any official information or testing on this either so the conservative rewrite assumption seems the most reasonable.

silisili 3y ago

What's big in offline storage these days? I did some work for UPS in the 2000s, and they used giant tape reels. Is that still the norm?