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This seems like democracy is dead in Brazil. If the brazilian court has such perfect monopoly on truth and can decide that much, why bother holding elections at

This seems like democracy is dead in Brazil. If the brazilian court has such perfect monopoly on truth and can decide that much, why bother holding elections at that point. Since in any election most parties are saying different things, the court can just ban all the others for misinformation and give power to the party they agree with. Better yet, they can rename themselves "King's Council" and take one of theirs as King, since truth is already known and rest is "illicit disinformation"

matheusmoreira 3y ago
> This seems like democracy is dead in Brazil. I agree completely and I've said that here on HN many times even despite downvotes. The censorship here began with last year's elections and has only been ramping up since then. The government wants what it wants and it will corrupt, destroy or silence anyone who opposes them. We're living under some sort of quasi-communist judiciary dictatorship. It sickens me to my soul to hear the word "democracy" come out of these people's mouths. Even North Korea calls itself a democracy... > the court can just ban all the others for misinformation and give power to the party they agree with That's exactly what they're doing. They've removed from office and made ineligible politicians over "disinformation". They accuse their opponents of the crime of "fake news" and then deplatform them. These all powerful judges who never received a single vote and are aligned with the ruling party. I wonder if one of these days dang's gonna get a message from these fucking people because of my posts.
- crop_rotation 3y ago
  Sadly people everywhere seem to support erosion of freedoms if their opponents get oppressed. All kinds of freedoms can be eroded as long as you can sell them as being used to hurt the "bad guys", whatever the bad guys means in any country.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    That's just human nature, tribalism justifies everything. It's why echo chambers are so appealing to so many people, and why they devolve into meme-slinging and a lack of critical thought.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      Echo chambers and political tribalism are one thing. Government and courts using police forces to coerce your speech is quite another. Uncritical discourse is sad but it does not excuse this blatant censorship.
      - crop_rotation 3y ago
        Yeah courts unilaterally deciding what political advocacy is disinformation or not is just a monarchy in disguise. It is just like the King deciding what is good for the Kingdom .By the way your comments on the current situation in Brazil have been so eye opening to me as an outsider. I did my own research and the more I read, the more shocked I become.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        There's plenty more in my comments and submissions history. I can make a list of links if you'd like. This is where it began: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33312582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33312582 Other brazilians here on HN have also corrected me on points where I was wrong, I learned plenty from them even in in cases where I didn't agree.
    - Akronymus 3y ago
      > It's why echo chambers are so appealing to so many people When I realized just how much of an echo chamber I built myself a few years ago, I essentially forced myself to develop a habit of seeking out "the other sides" opinions. One of the better decisions in my life.
slaw 3y ago
Democracy doesn't equal liberty. Current government was democratically elected, so Brazil still has democracy, it is just a totalitarian democracy.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  It's called Illiberal Democracy. In political science Liberal/Illiberal doesn't mean socially Progressive/Conservative, it means Open/Restricted from a civil liberties standpoint. This is why you can have right leaning Illiberal Democracies like Turkïye, Serbia, and Hungary as well as left leaning Illiberal Democracies like Brazil, South Africa, and Mexico, and also why you can have conservative leaning liberal democracies like South Korea, Denmark, or Japan and progressive leaning liberal democracies like Canada, Norway, or New Zealand.
  - slaw 3y ago
    I never heard about Illiberal Democracy. Wikipedia definition differs from yours and even Wikipedia is not sure about what it is[0] >There is a lack of consensus among experts about the exact definition of illiberal democracy or whether it even exists I would stop using left/right as a description in politics. For example ruling party in Hungary is socialist, which means it cannot be right wing party no matter what they claim. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy
    - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
      > I never heard about Illiberal Democracy. I've heard the term from Steven Kotkin. I think it's pretty clear what the term means. It means that nominally the institutions that are meant to protect civil liberties exist, but some person or group has managed to put their hands on enough levers that they can dictate the workings of those institutions. Like Russia, for example. They have elections for government, and they have institutions that are meant to ensure that the government doesn't have a monopoly on power. In practice however one person has an absolute hold on power, to the point that people who criticize him tend to fall out of windows a lot. That doesn't happen in the US for example. You can trash Biden all you want, no one's gonna show up at your house to murder you.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> This seems like democracy is dead in Brazil. I agree completely and I've said that here on HN many times even despite downvotes. The censorship here began with last year's elections and has only been ramping up since then. The government wants what it wants and it will corrupt, destroy or silence anyone who opposes them. We're living under some sort of quasi-communist judiciary dictatorship. It sickens me to my soul to hear the word "democracy" come out of these people's mouths. Even North Korea calls itself a democracy... > the court can just ban all the others for misinformation and give power to the party they agree with That's exactly what they're doing. They've removed from office and made ineligible politicians over "disinformation". They accuse their opponents of the crime of "fake news" and then deplatform them. These all powerful judges who never received a single vote and are aligned with the ruling party. I wonder if one of these days dang's gonna get a message from these fucking people because of my posts.

crop_rotation 3y ago
Sadly people everywhere seem to support erosion of freedoms if their opponents get oppressed. All kinds of freedoms can be eroded as long as you can sell them as being used to hurt the "bad guys", whatever the bad guys means in any country.
- EA-3167 3y ago
  That's just human nature, tribalism justifies everything. It's why echo chambers are so appealing to so many people, and why they devolve into meme-slinging and a lack of critical thought.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    Echo chambers and political tribalism are one thing. Government and courts using police forces to coerce your speech is quite another. Uncritical discourse is sad but it does not excuse this blatant censorship.
    - crop_rotation 3y ago
      Yeah courts unilaterally deciding what political advocacy is disinformation or not is just a monarchy in disguise. It is just like the King deciding what is good for the Kingdom .By the way your comments on the current situation in Brazil have been so eye opening to me as an outsider. I did my own research and the more I read, the more shocked I become.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        There's plenty more in my comments and submissions history. I can make a list of links if you'd like. This is where it began: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33312582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33312582 Other brazilians here on HN have also corrected me on points where I was wrong, I learned plenty from them even in in cases where I didn't agree.
  - Akronymus 3y ago
    > It's why echo chambers are so appealing to so many people When I realized just how much of an echo chamber I built myself a few years ago, I essentially forced myself to develop a habit of seeking out "the other sides" opinions. One of the better decisions in my life.

slaw 3y ago

Democracy doesn't equal liberty. Current government was democratically elected, so Brazil still has democracy, it is just a totalitarian democracy.

alephnerd 3y ago
It's called Illiberal Democracy. In political science Liberal/Illiberal doesn't mean socially Progressive/Conservative, it means Open/Restricted from a civil liberties standpoint. This is why you can have right leaning Illiberal Democracies like Turkïye, Serbia, and Hungary as well as left leaning Illiberal Democracies like Brazil, South Africa, and Mexico, and also why you can have conservative leaning liberal democracies like South Korea, Denmark, or Japan and progressive leaning liberal democracies like Canada, Norway, or New Zealand.
- slaw 3y ago
  I never heard about Illiberal Democracy. Wikipedia definition differs from yours and even Wikipedia is not sure about what it is[0] >There is a lack of consensus among experts about the exact definition of illiberal democracy or whether it even exists I would stop using left/right as a description in politics. For example ruling party in Hungary is socialist, which means it cannot be right wing party no matter what they claim. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illiberal_democracy
  - hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
    > I never heard about Illiberal Democracy. I've heard the term from Steven Kotkin. I think it's pretty clear what the term means. It means that nominally the institutions that are meant to protect civil liberties exist, but some person or group has managed to put their hands on enough levers that they can dictate the workings of those institutions. Like Russia, for example. They have elections for government, and they have institutions that are meant to ensure that the government doesn't have a monopoly on power. In practice however one person has an absolute hold on power, to the point that people who criticize him tend to fall out of windows a lot. That doesn't happen in the US for example. You can trash Biden all you want, no one's gonna show up at your house to murder you.