4 ms·

First sentence second paragraph of https://dooce.com/2017/11/06/on-the-power-of-a-congregation-to-provide-for-each-other-and-why-i-walked-away/ https://dooce.co

First sentence second paragraph of https://dooce.com/2017/11/06/on-the-power-of-a-congregation-to-provide-for-each-other-and-why-i-walked-away/ https://dooce.com/2017/11/06/on-the-power-of-a-congregation-... "My friend Ashley was in charge of organizing the event and asked if I’d speak knowing that I had my name removed from the church rolls earlier this year." "Lapsed" means left the church. "Removed from church rolls" means left the church

deleted 3y ago
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benatkin 3y ago
There's some nuance to the term. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35894795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35894795
- mlyle 3y ago
  I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You're linking to -someone else- explaining why it's a fitting description.
  - benatkin 3y ago
    Just because they disagree at least partially with me doesn't mean they agree completely with each other. GP seems to be making an argument for linguistic neutrality, that any term that means something is as good as any other term that means the same thing. The reply I linked expands on how the term "lapsed" is used, which shows that there are subtle differences in what it communicates...
    - mlyle 3y ago
      You're not indicating what you think the problem is. It's frustrating for other people seeking to communicate with you. You're not even indicating what part of those sources that you believe supports your view-- which as far as I can tell they don't. "Lapsed" in my experience has a friendlier connotation than most other words we would to describe someone who no longer practices a religion. Here we have someone who has not just stopped attending the church, but has chose to speak at events for others leaving the church, and took action to have her name removed from the rolls, etc. So while some use "lapsed" to say "no longer actively practicing," and others reserve it for "having deliberately left"-- the nuances are immaterial. She fit all of these labels.
      - benatkin 3y ago
        > It's frustrating for other people seeking to communicate with you. OK then, we're done here. Chao.
        mlyle 3y ago
        I see that you eventually explained yourself (after the sideways link to someone else's comment, etc) in this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35895085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35895085 It might have been better to just say that directly... it would have saved everyone some time and energy, including you. Unfortunately, we don't have an adjective for someone who is deliberately opposed to a religion in English that doesn't have an extremely negative connotation.
        benatkin 3y ago
        What about "former mormon"?
        mlyle 3y ago
        So I guess your objection is that "lapsed" doesn't convey sufficient intentionality?
        benatkin 3y ago
        I'm not even objecting to it. I just was asking for context around the use of that term. I've found sufficient context. It's a combination of the fact that most people don't see a (big) distinction between lapsed mormon and other terms like ex-mormon and there being previous articles using the term lapsed mormon about her. But yes, that is precisely why I don't use that term for myself. I didn't just drift away from the church, at first. Later on I drifted away from the lifestyle, but that was after I stopped going to church, and I stopped going to church because even after asking clergy and my family I couldn't resolve issues with my faith.
        3y ago
- microtherion 3y ago
  An additional nuance is that I've often seen "lapsed" used as a self description of people who are somewhat regretful about no longer practicing their faith. Whether as a self description or used by others, it generally carries a connotation that having left the faith is a negative thing. I agree that "former" is a more neutral term.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

benatkin 3y ago

There's some nuance to the term. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35894795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35894795

mlyle 3y ago
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You're linking to -someone else- explaining why it's a fitting description.
- benatkin 3y ago
  Just because they disagree at least partially with me doesn't mean they agree completely with each other. GP seems to be making an argument for linguistic neutrality, that any term that means something is as good as any other term that means the same thing. The reply I linked expands on how the term "lapsed" is used, which shows that there are subtle differences in what it communicates...
  - mlyle 3y ago
    You're not indicating what you think the problem is. It's frustrating for other people seeking to communicate with you. You're not even indicating what part of those sources that you believe supports your view-- which as far as I can tell they don't. "Lapsed" in my experience has a friendlier connotation than most other words we would to describe someone who no longer practices a religion. Here we have someone who has not just stopped attending the church, but has chose to speak at events for others leaving the church, and took action to have her name removed from the rolls, etc. So while some use "lapsed" to say "no longer actively practicing," and others reserve it for "having deliberately left"-- the nuances are immaterial. She fit all of these labels.
    - benatkin 3y ago
      > It's frustrating for other people seeking to communicate with you. OK then, we're done here. Chao.
      - mlyle 3y ago
        I see that you eventually explained yourself (after the sideways link to someone else's comment, etc) in this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35895085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35895085 It might have been better to just say that directly... it would have saved everyone some time and energy, including you. Unfortunately, we don't have an adjective for someone who is deliberately opposed to a religion in English that doesn't have an extremely negative connotation.
        benatkin 3y ago
        What about "former mormon"?
        mlyle 3y ago
        So I guess your objection is that "lapsed" doesn't convey sufficient intentionality?
        benatkin 3y ago
        I'm not even objecting to it. I just was asking for context around the use of that term. I've found sufficient context. It's a combination of the fact that most people don't see a (big) distinction between lapsed mormon and other terms like ex-mormon and there being previous articles using the term lapsed mormon about her. But yes, that is precisely why I don't use that term for myself. I didn't just drift away from the church, at first. Later on I drifted away from the lifestyle, but that was after I stopped going to church, and I stopped going to church because even after asking clergy and my family I couldn't resolve issues with my faith.
        3y ago
microtherion 3y ago
An additional nuance is that I've often seen "lapsed" used as a self description of people who are somewhat regretful about no longer practicing their faith. Whether as a self description or used by others, it generally carries a connotation that having left the faith is a negative thing. I agree that "former" is a more neutral term.