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Somebody has to supply your energy. Is Bashar Assad a better option, or perhaps Saudis are better? Islamic republic or Iran perhaps? Hugo Chavez? If you don't

Somebody has to supply your energy. Is Bashar Assad a better option, or perhaps Saudis are better? Islamic republic or Iran perhaps? Hugo Chavez? If you don't like how Russia handled Ichkeria, you are not alone because Russians have exactly that feeling about Yugoslavia as well as Iraq.

bluepizza 3y ago
If you are to take the realpolitik posture, and take the best of your worst picks - of course bad actors outside of your own continent are a better option than bad actors next door. Nobody has any sympathy as to how Russians feel about anything while they are invading Ukraine.
mustacheemperor 3y ago
[flagged]
- thriftwy 3y ago
  > The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia is not remotely like an atrocity like the destruction of Grozny. Why is that? At least, Russia has rebuilt Grozny since then, whereas NATO just left Serbs to their own devices. Neither do Russians care that much what people of the EU feel. We have our own mental resources to reflect on the shit we made, so the NATO countries are encouraged to reflect on their own shit and stop nagging us. And take your NGOs with you. Meanwhile we still have a war to win, or at least to end.
  - bluepizza 3y ago
    I sincerely hope that you find a way out of a violent and destructive mindset. The only one to blame for Russia's isolation and woes are Russians themselves. The day that Russia stops sabotaging elections, bribing officials, and murdering innocents is the day that Russia will be accepted openly.
    - abvaw 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - throwway120385 3y ago
        Whataboutism is always the recourse for someone who doesn't see a moral imperative to stop doing bad things. "Everyone does it. What's wrong if we do it too?" Well the point isn't to sink to the lowest low humanity has to offer but to try to be better than everyone else, and you can't claim the moral high ground by arguing from the bottom of the hill.
  - mustacheemperor 3y ago
    I'm not sure if you genuinely think the extent of the destruction in Grozny is comparable to the extent of the destruction in Yugoslavia after the NATO intervention, but it wasn't, and neither was the need to rebuild. NATO did not grind any Yugoslav cities to dust, and killed hundreds, not thousands, of civilians. Furthermore, NATO did not invade and conquer Yugoslavia, which seems like a key point in regards to rebuilding. The Chechens did not get the opportunity to rebuild Grozny themselves because Russia destroyed their government, tricked their leadership into being slain while withdrawing, and re-created their state as Russian. The Chechens wanted to be left to their own devices to run their country. Russia invaded in response, and killed and destroyed until there was nothing left to defend. Can you recognize the absolute distortion of perspective it takes to look at Russia invading Chechenya to prevent its independence, destroying its capital to force it to surrender, and then say "well at least Russia rebuilt it after they conquered it!" >NATO countries are encouraged to reflect on their own shit and stop nagging us Your country invaded a NATO-friendly nation on the border of NATO. You are not being "nagged" when that country's government calls the world for aid and the world, shocked and appalled at the actions of your bloodthirsty regime, responds. Look, I won't even attempt to convince you any further - either your government will collapse and the harsh rays of sunlight will expose the truth for you, or your government will continue to close its doors to the outside world until what you believe won't matter at all anyway. I don't imagine I have the rhetorical ability to break through your distorted worldview myself. You lost this war in 2021. At this point, it's just a question of how many Ukrainian and Russian lives you will waste before accepting it.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - czzr 3y ago
        In the end, your arguments in this thread always come back to “well, they did it too” or “they deserved it”. I hope one day Russia and Russians find a way to contribute hope to the world, instead of sad and pointless destruction.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  > some kind of false dichotomy here that "somebody" is either Russia or another violent regime But it is true. Europe has increased gas imports from Algeria with the excuse that "Russia bad". Like Algeria is any better.
  - kspacewalk2 3y ago
    Algeria is absolutely better in essentially every way. In particular, they're not invading neighbours, murdering tens of thousands of civilians or attempting to erase a culture and a language from existence.
    - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
      Wrong[0]. Algeria has an important role in the ongoing Western Sahara conflict, caused by its rivarly with Morocco. Also wait till you learn that Algeria has strong ties with Russia. Hint: they conduct joint military exercises and buy weapons from Russia. > In particular, they're not invading neighbours, murdering tens of thousands of civilians or attempting to erase a culture and a language from existence. Source for tens of thousands of dead civilians in Ukraine? Btw following this logic what should we say about the USA with Iraq or Afghanistan? The count of dead civilians goes to the hundreds of thousands, and that's only counting those caused directly. If you add the civilians deaths caused indirectly by bombing two countries to ash then this starts to look like a genocide. Because right now Europe is buying a lot more gas from the USA, all to the USA's profit of course. If the parameter of choice is "number of dead civilians caused by wars" then Europe should still buy Russian gas. .0 https://ecfr.eu/publication/north-african-standoff-how-the-western-sahara-conflict-is-fuelling-new-tensions-between-morocco-and-algeria/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/north-african-standoff-how-the-w...
beebeepka 3y ago
[flagged]
- henearkr 3y ago
  And what do you think about the good old "mirroring" tactics of Russian psy ops: accusing the other party of what they're doing themselves? (which you are maybe doing right now by accusing somebody to be a psy op) By the way Putin's Russia［edited from just "Russia", to clarify we're speaking about nowadays' Russia, not Soviet Union］ has killed hundreds if not thousands of children, and has wrenched thousands of them from their parents. Just so you remember.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    Russian stooges killed several of my relatives back in the day. They had special camps wide open for anyone who dared to oppose our new rulers. I know
    - henearkr 3y ago
      Oops, I'm sorry to hear that... Now I'm afraid my comment came as rather insensitive... my apologies... I was speaking about Putin's Russia, to clarify. I think it's fair to get justice for any war crime, and any crime against humanity, be it from Russia or from US. I just honestly feel that the crime bucket of Putin's Russia is fuller than US' one during the same era!
      - beebeepka 3y ago
        Noted. I am used to the binary logic in this sort of topics. I did not mod down your initial response.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      I am deeply sorry for your relatives. I would like to point out that communism have killed way more people inside Russia itself. Unfortunately, a great many number of people in Russia still do not understand the extent of damage that communism has inflicted on the country and its peoples. So basically you may just ignore me while many Russians still approve what was done not only to you but to themselves, but here my condolences go.
josephcsible 3y ago
Or instead of relying on any of them, generate energy in nuclear reactors domestically instead.

bluepizza 3y ago

If you are to take the realpolitik posture, and take the best of your worst picks - of course bad actors outside of your own continent are a better option than bad actors next door. Nobody has any sympathy as to how Russians feel about anything while they are invading Ukraine.

mustacheemperor 3y ago

[flagged]

thriftwy 3y ago
> The NATO intervention in Yugoslavia is not remotely like an atrocity like the destruction of Grozny. Why is that? At least, Russia has rebuilt Grozny since then, whereas NATO just left Serbs to their own devices. Neither do Russians care that much what people of the EU feel. We have our own mental resources to reflect on the shit we made, so the NATO countries are encouraged to reflect on their own shit and stop nagging us. And take your NGOs with you. Meanwhile we still have a war to win, or at least to end.
- bluepizza 3y ago
  I sincerely hope that you find a way out of a violent and destructive mindset. The only one to blame for Russia's isolation and woes are Russians themselves. The day that Russia stops sabotaging elections, bribing officials, and murdering innocents is the day that Russia will be accepted openly.
  - abvaw 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - throwway120385 3y ago
      Whataboutism is always the recourse for someone who doesn't see a moral imperative to stop doing bad things. "Everyone does it. What's wrong if we do it too?" Well the point isn't to sink to the lowest low humanity has to offer but to try to be better than everyone else, and you can't claim the moral high ground by arguing from the bottom of the hill.
- mustacheemperor 3y ago
  I'm not sure if you genuinely think the extent of the destruction in Grozny is comparable to the extent of the destruction in Yugoslavia after the NATO intervention, but it wasn't, and neither was the need to rebuild. NATO did not grind any Yugoslav cities to dust, and killed hundreds, not thousands, of civilians. Furthermore, NATO did not invade and conquer Yugoslavia, which seems like a key point in regards to rebuilding. The Chechens did not get the opportunity to rebuild Grozny themselves because Russia destroyed their government, tricked their leadership into being slain while withdrawing, and re-created their state as Russian. The Chechens wanted to be left to their own devices to run their country. Russia invaded in response, and killed and destroyed until there was nothing left to defend. Can you recognize the absolute distortion of perspective it takes to look at Russia invading Chechenya to prevent its independence, destroying its capital to force it to surrender, and then say "well at least Russia rebuilt it after they conquered it!" >NATO countries are encouraged to reflect on their own shit and stop nagging us Your country invaded a NATO-friendly nation on the border of NATO. You are not being "nagged" when that country's government calls the world for aid and the world, shocked and appalled at the actions of your bloodthirsty regime, responds. Look, I won't even attempt to convince you any further - either your government will collapse and the harsh rays of sunlight will expose the truth for you, or your government will continue to close its doors to the outside world until what you believe won't matter at all anyway. I don't imagine I have the rhetorical ability to break through your distorted worldview myself. You lost this war in 2021. At this point, it's just a question of how many Ukrainian and Russian lives you will waste before accepting it.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - czzr 3y ago
      In the end, your arguments in this thread always come back to “well, they did it too” or “they deserved it”. I hope one day Russia and Russians find a way to contribute hope to the world, instead of sad and pointless destruction.
pastacacioepepe 3y ago
> some kind of false dichotomy here that "somebody" is either Russia or another violent regime But it is true. Europe has increased gas imports from Algeria with the excuse that "Russia bad". Like Algeria is any better.
- kspacewalk2 3y ago
  Algeria is absolutely better in essentially every way. In particular, they're not invading neighbours, murdering tens of thousands of civilians or attempting to erase a culture and a language from existence.
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    Wrong[0]. Algeria has an important role in the ongoing Western Sahara conflict, caused by its rivarly with Morocco. Also wait till you learn that Algeria has strong ties with Russia. Hint: they conduct joint military exercises and buy weapons from Russia. > In particular, they're not invading neighbours, murdering tens of thousands of civilians or attempting to erase a culture and a language from existence. Source for tens of thousands of dead civilians in Ukraine? Btw following this logic what should we say about the USA with Iraq or Afghanistan? The count of dead civilians goes to the hundreds of thousands, and that's only counting those caused directly. If you add the civilians deaths caused indirectly by bombing two countries to ash then this starts to look like a genocide. Because right now Europe is buying a lot more gas from the USA, all to the USA's profit of course. If the parameter of choice is "number of dead civilians caused by wars" then Europe should still buy Russian gas. .0 https://ecfr.eu/publication/north-african-standoff-how-the-western-sahara-conflict-is-fuelling-new-tensions-between-morocco-and-algeria/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/north-african-standoff-how-the-w...

beebeepka 3y ago

[flagged]

henearkr 3y ago
And what do you think about the good old "mirroring" tactics of Russian psy ops: accusing the other party of what they're doing themselves? (which you are maybe doing right now by accusing somebody to be a psy op) By the way Putin's Russia［edited from just "Russia", to clarify we're speaking about nowadays' Russia, not Soviet Union］ has killed hundreds if not thousands of children, and has wrenched thousands of them from their parents. Just so you remember.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Russian stooges killed several of my relatives back in the day. They had special camps wide open for anyone who dared to oppose our new rulers. I know
  - henearkr 3y ago
    Oops, I'm sorry to hear that... Now I'm afraid my comment came as rather insensitive... my apologies... I was speaking about Putin's Russia, to clarify. I think it's fair to get justice for any war crime, and any crime against humanity, be it from Russia or from US. I just honestly feel that the crime bucket of Putin's Russia is fuller than US' one during the same era!
    - beebeepka 3y ago
      Noted. I am used to the binary logic in this sort of topics. I did not mod down your initial response.
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    I am deeply sorry for your relatives. I would like to point out that communism have killed way more people inside Russia itself. Unfortunately, a great many number of people in Russia still do not understand the extent of damage that communism has inflicted on the country and its peoples. So basically you may just ignore me while many Russians still approve what was done not only to you but to themselves, but here my condolences go.

josephcsible 3y ago

Or instead of relying on any of them, generate energy in nuclear reactors domestically instead.