8 ms·

A very important detail! Deaths from covid are way way down mainly because of vaccines.

by jahnu 3y ago

preciz 3y ago
[flagged]
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  >Let the downvotes come. Well deserved.
- hanselot 3y ago
  I'm right here to eat downvotes with you. People seem to be very unaware of the sunken cost fallacy. The worst part is that people refuse to believe fact to levels which the best nazi propagandists would balk at.
- mc32 3y ago
  The mask flip-flopping was unbelievable. In the beginning: masks are not effective, don't use them, stay six feet away. Then, some point later: you're careless and irresponsible of you do not wear masks as you will infect other people. Then, later, We're not sure about six feet, that was an old study regarding droplets and not aerosols. Oh, Covid transmits via droplets and aerosols, so masks are ineffective. Get the vaccine, two shots. No, no, wait, you'll need a booster... Wait, no, you need another one. Wait, wait, you'll need one every few months. Oh and wearing masks can have negative cognitive and health effects if you wear them for a prolonged amount of time. 1000+ days later, the 15 day flatten the curve emergency decree is over! Now, I'm all for vaccines but I want proven vaccines not half-arsed vaccines approved after a 6 month study on efficacy and adverse effects. Damn it, they should have had a dedicated team studying these exact things fomr the get-go but mr know it all Faucci was adamant he knew what he was talking about. They should have been forthright and been truthful with people instead of spoon-feeding them and gaslighting them. We're adults, we can understand we're figuring things out and it's an emergent pandemic --but boy, the propaganda.
  - snovv_crash 3y ago
    This is science. It changes its opinion as more information is gathered. This is a feature, not a bug. If you want universal answers that don't change, look to religion.
    - mc32 3y ago
      Religion was what we witnessed in people when they in unison would follow any new directive without question --without evidence. Also, the establishment is loath to admit any mistakes, when there were many. Mr Faucci also lied to Congress. Remember how the establishment laughed at Sweden, but it turns out they were right, or at least less wrong about how to deal with this past pandemic?
      - betacat 3y ago
        Sweden tried to go the "herd immunity" route, realize they were about to take it hard on the nose, and changed course to match their European neighbors who were doing better. What do you think happened?
        wfme 3y ago
        I'm not aware of any Swedish lockdowns. What are you referring to?
        vegardx 3y ago
        This is one of those hard things to understand if you don't understand the nordic mentality. Unlike a lot of places you rarely have to mandate something for people to adjust their behavior. So - no there weren't any lockdowns, but social gatherings was very limited, and people for the most part followed through with social distancing.
        snovv_crash 3y ago
        Switzerland didn't have any "lockdowns" either. Non essential stores were closed, as well as public gatherings, but public transport was still running and you could go wherever and do what you wanted. And Switzerland ended up having much higher COVID stats than surrounding parts of Europe, despite having a generally wealthy, fit and healthy population. But people's individual lives were much less impacted since they could still do outdoor activities and travel. It's all a trade-off.
- snovv_crash 3y ago
  Having read the actual medical journal papers of the early clinical trials, the MRNA vaccines were wildly effective against the early strains. If you have actual medical data published in journals and peer reviewed, I'd be very happy to see it, and possibly even change my opinion if it's convincing.
  - stefantalpalaru 3y ago
    > If you have actual medical data published in journals and peer reviewed, I'd be very happy to see it, and possibly even change my opinion if it's convincing. https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795612c0f569b12 https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795...
    - hanselot 3y ago
      How quiet they become in the face of data. Why are none of these studies being discussed? Obviously because it doesn't fit the narrative. I will say it again, if you are still refusing to accept what is happening, you are most likely in the Denial stage. https://web.archive.org/web/20230327020816/https://www.washington.edu/counseling/2020/06/08/the-stages-of-grief-accepting-the-unacceptable/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230327020816/https://www.washi... sprinkled with a side of https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy The worst part is, in my life I have never more wanted to be wrong, because the cost of being right is so high. The irony that I was involved in promoting awareness of this way back before anyone cared is not lost on me. Is it so hard to believe that a company with an incredibly large financial incentive to lie, did so? Is it so difficult to believe that these same companies use propaganda to shape discourse online? The same companies that are happy to promote the body positivity movement resulting in lifelong insulin dependency, yet somehow you refuse to believe that they would try to cash in on a global scale?
      - snovv_crash 3y ago
        > How quiet they become in the face of data. Why are none of these studies being discussed? This level of discussion isn't constructive. (I was asleep, FYI, not everybody is in west coast US). The studies listed for the most part all came out after COVID was basically gone. Sure there is plenty that could have been done better in hindsight, but cherry picking a single study showing difficulties with lipids from 2010 "that they should have known about" when the alternative was authoritarian lockdowns is not a helpful position to take.
- nayuki 3y ago
  > Why is HN so eager to cheer vaccines wherever it can? There was no guarantee that the world could develop and test an effective, safe vaccine in less than a year.
malcolmgreaves 3y ago
mRNA vaccine creation is humanity's most impressive technology. We'd be absolutely screwed right now if we didn't have this tech. (Or, more accurately: a lot more people would be dead otherwise).
- autokad 3y ago
  I don't really think so. Omicron is what did it. I think in Africa only 24% received at least one dose, and Africa is not a giant heaping pile of covid19 bodies. If I recall correctly (its possible I do not), the latest booster is for BA-5, which was effectively extinct by the time the booster came out. Why its extinct is important: the existing variants had immune escape over BA-5.
  - betacat 3y ago
    That's a continental average. Rates varied (June 2022) from nearly 72% in Rwanda to near zero in neighboring Burundi. You are unfortunately parroting a bad/malicious over-generalization.
    - marcusverus 3y ago
      This is common sense and goes without saying. GP does not need to recite the litany about the fact that things are different in different parts of Africa. We're aware. > You are unfortunately parroting a bad/malicious over-generalization. Yawn.
  - koshergweilo 3y ago
    The age of the average African is significantly younger than the rest of the world. There's a lot of variables to account for, you'd need a proper study, not just a single data point, to determine if omicron is significantly less deadly than older COVID variants. As for GP's claim that vaccines saved a lot of lives, that's very well supported at this point https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-vaccines-prevented-millions-deaths-hospitalizations#:~:text=From%20December%202020%20through%20November,million%20more%20COVID%2D19%20infections https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-v....
wfme 3y ago
For the initial variants, sure. But those have long since been replaced with much milder variants, closely resembling a mild cold for most. How are you able to attribute the reduction in deaths for this winter compared to the previous winter to vaccines? We had vaccines in the previous winter too.

A very important detail! Deaths from covid are way way down mainly because of vaccines.

by jahnu 3y ago

A very important detail! Deaths from covid are way way down mainly because of vaccines.

preciz 3y ago

[flagged]

Hikikomori 3y ago
>Let the downvotes come. Well deserved.
hanselot 3y ago
I'm right here to eat downvotes with you. People seem to be very unaware of the sunken cost fallacy. The worst part is that people refuse to believe fact to levels which the best nazi propagandists would balk at.
mc32 3y ago
The mask flip-flopping was unbelievable. In the beginning: masks are not effective, don't use them, stay six feet away. Then, some point later: you're careless and irresponsible of you do not wear masks as you will infect other people. Then, later, We're not sure about six feet, that was an old study regarding droplets and not aerosols. Oh, Covid transmits via droplets and aerosols, so masks are ineffective. Get the vaccine, two shots. No, no, wait, you'll need a booster... Wait, no, you need another one. Wait, wait, you'll need one every few months. Oh and wearing masks can have negative cognitive and health effects if you wear them for a prolonged amount of time. 1000+ days later, the 15 day flatten the curve emergency decree is over! Now, I'm all for vaccines but I want proven vaccines not half-arsed vaccines approved after a 6 month study on efficacy and adverse effects. Damn it, they should have had a dedicated team studying these exact things fomr the get-go but mr know it all Faucci was adamant he knew what he was talking about. They should have been forthright and been truthful with people instead of spoon-feeding them and gaslighting them. We're adults, we can understand we're figuring things out and it's an emergent pandemic --but boy, the propaganda.
- snovv_crash 3y ago
  This is science. It changes its opinion as more information is gathered. This is a feature, not a bug. If you want universal answers that don't change, look to religion.
  - mc32 3y ago
    Religion was what we witnessed in people when they in unison would follow any new directive without question --without evidence. Also, the establishment is loath to admit any mistakes, when there were many. Mr Faucci also lied to Congress. Remember how the establishment laughed at Sweden, but it turns out they were right, or at least less wrong about how to deal with this past pandemic?
    - betacat 3y ago
      Sweden tried to go the "herd immunity" route, realize they were about to take it hard on the nose, and changed course to match their European neighbors who were doing better. What do you think happened?
      - wfme 3y ago
        I'm not aware of any Swedish lockdowns. What are you referring to?
        vegardx 3y ago
        This is one of those hard things to understand if you don't understand the nordic mentality. Unlike a lot of places you rarely have to mandate something for people to adjust their behavior. So - no there weren't any lockdowns, but social gatherings was very limited, and people for the most part followed through with social distancing.
        snovv_crash 3y ago
        Switzerland didn't have any "lockdowns" either. Non essential stores were closed, as well as public gatherings, but public transport was still running and you could go wherever and do what you wanted. And Switzerland ended up having much higher COVID stats than surrounding parts of Europe, despite having a generally wealthy, fit and healthy population. But people's individual lives were much less impacted since they could still do outdoor activities and travel. It's all a trade-off.
snovv_crash 3y ago
Having read the actual medical journal papers of the early clinical trials, the MRNA vaccines were wildly effective against the early strains. If you have actual medical data published in journals and peer reviewed, I'd be very happy to see it, and possibly even change my opinion if it's convincing.
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago
  > If you have actual medical data published in journals and peer reviewed, I'd be very happy to see it, and possibly even change my opinion if it's convincing. https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795612c0f569b12 https://gist.github.com/stefantalpalaru/b630413da6889c79f795...
  - hanselot 3y ago
    How quiet they become in the face of data. Why are none of these studies being discussed? Obviously because it doesn't fit the narrative. I will say it again, if you are still refusing to accept what is happening, you are most likely in the Denial stage. https://web.archive.org/web/20230327020816/https://www.washington.edu/counseling/2020/06/08/the-stages-of-grief-accepting-the-unacceptable/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230327020816/https://www.washi... sprinkled with a side of https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy The worst part is, in my life I have never more wanted to be wrong, because the cost of being right is so high. The irony that I was involved in promoting awareness of this way back before anyone cared is not lost on me. Is it so hard to believe that a company with an incredibly large financial incentive to lie, did so? Is it so difficult to believe that these same companies use propaganda to shape discourse online? The same companies that are happy to promote the body positivity movement resulting in lifelong insulin dependency, yet somehow you refuse to believe that they would try to cash in on a global scale?
    - snovv_crash 3y ago
      > How quiet they become in the face of data. Why are none of these studies being discussed? This level of discussion isn't constructive. (I was asleep, FYI, not everybody is in west coast US). The studies listed for the most part all came out after COVID was basically gone. Sure there is plenty that could have been done better in hindsight, but cherry picking a single study showing difficulties with lipids from 2010 "that they should have known about" when the alternative was authoritarian lockdowns is not a helpful position to take.
nayuki 3y ago
> Why is HN so eager to cheer vaccines wherever it can? There was no guarantee that the world could develop and test an effective, safe vaccine in less than a year.

malcolmgreaves 3y ago

mRNA vaccine creation is humanity's most impressive technology. We'd be absolutely screwed right now if we didn't have this tech. (Or, more accurately: a lot more people would be dead otherwise).

autokad 3y ago
I don't really think so. Omicron is what did it. I think in Africa only 24% received at least one dose, and Africa is not a giant heaping pile of covid19 bodies. If I recall correctly (its possible I do not), the latest booster is for BA-5, which was effectively extinct by the time the booster came out. Why its extinct is important: the existing variants had immune escape over BA-5.
- betacat 3y ago
  That's a continental average. Rates varied (June 2022) from nearly 72% in Rwanda to near zero in neighboring Burundi. You are unfortunately parroting a bad/malicious over-generalization.
  - marcusverus 3y ago
    This is common sense and goes without saying. GP does not need to recite the litany about the fact that things are different in different parts of Africa. We're aware. > You are unfortunately parroting a bad/malicious over-generalization. Yawn.
- koshergweilo 3y ago
  The age of the average African is significantly younger than the rest of the world. There's a lot of variables to account for, you'd need a proper study, not just a single data point, to determine if omicron is significantly less deadly than older COVID variants. As for GP's claim that vaccines saved a lot of lives, that's very well supported at this point https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-vaccines-prevented-millions-deaths-hospitalizations#:~:text=From%20December%202020%20through%20November,million%20more%20COVID%2D19%20infections https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-v....

wfme 3y ago

For the initial variants, sure. But those have long since been replaced with much milder variants, closely resembling a mild cold for most. How are you able to attribute the reduction in deaths for this winter compared to the previous winter to vaccines? We had vaccines in the previous winter too.