4 ms·

Just to be clear, ADHD is certainly a real thing, and I have a lot of compassion for those who suffer it. My anecdotal story is all about being able to clearly

Just to be clear, ADHD is certainly a real thing, and I have a lot of compassion for those who suffer it. My anecdotal story is all about being able to clearly identify when someone is suffering from addiction or drug abuse, having been there myself. Such outcomes are a natural side-effect of a culture that overprescribes addictive (and often very enjoyable) chemical stimulants.

hirvi74 3y ago
I'm sure you are well aware of the connection between ADHD and addiction to begin with. I am prescribed stimulants for ADHD. Just because you need something doesn't mean it can't be addictive (I know you didn't say otherwise). With that being said, I am without a doubt dependent on the medication (that's kind of the point), but am I addicted? Well, I ask myself that everyday. I would argue to some degree, I probably am too.
- lazide 3y ago
  Chances are, if you’re worried about it that way, you aren’t.
  - sibeliuss 3y ago
    As someone who has been through the addiction loop, I can say a) it's a good thing that he's thinking that way, it is good to be conscious of these things; b) that even the slightest question about addiction points to something significant, something to watch very closely; and c) consciousness about these things can never be used as an excuse to ignore it.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Good points. However, it’s also an extremely common reason people with ADHD use to go off their meds, when looking in from the outside they clearly weren’t addicted by literally any definition of the word. It would be like if someone who suffered from chronic dehydration worried they were addicted to water because they were drinking the amount prescribed for them after having a medical diagnosis related to it, so they stopped. Then, of course, went back to the prior state which was ‘normal’ to them. Which is why it’s all best done under the supervision of a qualified professional who hopefully isn’t a fuckup.
    - hirvi74 3y ago
      If you don't mind me asking, what were the signs you were addicted to something vs. dependent on something? I understand both are not mutually exclusive like in alcohol, for example. While I have been addicted to tobacco, I fail to see how a people who are addicted to tobacco/nicotine are different than me (a stimulant is a stimulant). Is the difference sheerly due to the harm tobacco causes? I do not feel like if I lost access to medication I would go and start pawning off stolen car radios to get my fix, but I feel like I would absolutely "hot-swap" to something else like caffeine (it's what I used prior to medication). I do not think I abuse the medication or anything -- no all nighters, no running out before my next prescription, etc.. I try to take one day a week off them, but that one day is sometimes uncomfortable. I would say my relationship to the medication is very "Flowers for Algernon" in a sense. I've almost lost access to medication due to all kinds of non-behavioral reasons like prescription issues, medication shortages, etc.. That always sends me into a spiral of anxiety and stress, but mainly because I feel like my life will fall apart quite quickly without the medication. However, at the same time, I wonder if I am being delusional because it's not like the medication makes me some kind of FAANG developer or anything. I'm still just your lowly below-average developer working at an undervalued and dead-end job for my local government. It's about as easy as it gets in terms of jobs, and I feel like I can barely keep my head above water.
      - lazide 3y ago
        [https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-science-addiction/drug-misuse-addiction https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-scie...] Did/do you compulsively seek caffeine despite significant adverse consequences to yourself and/or others? If someone really like having coffee, but can afford it and it doesn’t hurt their health - they aren’t addicted. If someone can’t hold down a job because they constantly drink coffee to the point they can’t work, then they’re addicted. Or, if they suffer from heart issues or whatever (I’m reaching, I know) due to all the coffee they drink, but can’t stop. Same. So the question is - does the Adderall or whatever help you function, actually? And in totality improve your life? If so, then you aren’t addicted. It’s rational. Seeking it, as long as it isn’t compulsive (aka it is based on a reasonable need and in proportion to the benefits/circumstances) is a reasonable thing to do. Like looking for Tylenol is if you sprained an ankle. The challenge is, Addicts (of all kinds!) are often incredibly delusional on this front, and Adderall et al IS addictive for folks without ADHD brain chemistry/ADHD dosage. It isn’t as bad as meth, but same issues. So someone who is an addict will often say yes, everything is fine to all those questions (and often mean it), but anyone looking in from the outside who knew them would often go whoa buddy that’s fucked, and they will have noticeable issues with functioning at some point. Others may be non-addictive personalities and be able to use the meds (and get high) but will not be addicts. They can take it or leave it. Many (well, early stage) addicts often tend to think they are these people. It’s part of the problem that makes them addicts. Some substances are very, very addictive and only a small portion of the population will not be a problem. Others, it requires a really special person to get addicted (in real terms) to it. Like coffee. Where interestingly, ADHD folks will often wonder constantly if they’re addicts while their life (and symptoms) noticeably improve - inside and out, and while they actively try to cut themselves off from the meds. Weird huh? If you’re really wondering, writing down in a daily journal can help if you do it consistently and review it after awhile. If your life circumstance is such it’s safe, taking a pause for a week or two on the meds while doing this can be very informative - but I wouldn’t recommend it without discussing with your Dr. first as it can be a real problem if there are real issues you need the medicine to help you address. I had a cousin who ended up homeless every time he went off his meds, for instance. ADHD memory is the worst.
lazide 3y ago
I have yet to meet someone with ADHD who enjoys the medication. In fact, most folks I know with ADHD are often trying to avoid taking them. It’s a pretty meaningful, objective difference actually between ‘normals’ and folks with ADHD. The neurochemistry is different for them, objectively and visibly so.
- LegitShady 3y ago
  The thing is, enjoy isn't even the issue. I have ADHD and I decided against taking medication for it because I found it addictive, and any time I changed the medication I had long periods of ups and downs that I intensely disliked. I've had a lot of people tell me I'm brilliant etc when working with me (not a humblebrag), and that's fine. Internally I absolutely know I'm operating at like 15/100 and I could be operating at 100% with medication. The issue isn't being smart or not, its about impulse control, the ability to focus and put in long hours, etc. I get so much less done than I could get done because I can't focus on the task as much as a normal person can, even if my decision making/research is good. so enjoy or not enjoy, if you want to be operating at the same level as your peers in high performance workplaces what you enjoy doesn't really enter into it. I just found for me the medication was too habit forming, and I'd rather be me at 15% forever and figure out what I can do with that than be at 100% and addicted to amphetamines. I completely understand the other decision, though.
  - lazide 3y ago
    What do you mean by habit forming, exactly? Taking them should be a habit, no?
- spidersenses 3y ago
  Makes me glad to hear that I'm not the only one, who feels like this. I often think that I'm simply screwed for life: Without medication my life goes off the rails within days, with medication I'm at least barely able to hold it together, but I hate the nausea, hate the rebound (disorientation after the effect wears off), and the fact that I still don't remember to eat and rehydrate properly. I think I would need a life coach for a while, but as I'm surviving on a subsistence level, that's not an option.

hirvi74 3y ago

I'm sure you are well aware of the connection between ADHD and addiction to begin with. I am prescribed stimulants for ADHD. Just because you need something doesn't mean it can't be addictive (I know you didn't say otherwise). With that being said, I am without a doubt dependent on the medication (that's kind of the point), but am I addicted? Well, I ask myself that everyday. I would argue to some degree, I probably am too.

lazide 3y ago
Chances are, if you’re worried about it that way, you aren’t.
- sibeliuss 3y ago
  As someone who has been through the addiction loop, I can say a) it's a good thing that he's thinking that way, it is good to be conscious of these things; b) that even the slightest question about addiction points to something significant, something to watch very closely; and c) consciousness about these things can never be used as an excuse to ignore it.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Good points. However, it’s also an extremely common reason people with ADHD use to go off their meds, when looking in from the outside they clearly weren’t addicted by literally any definition of the word. It would be like if someone who suffered from chronic dehydration worried they were addicted to water because they were drinking the amount prescribed for them after having a medical diagnosis related to it, so they stopped. Then, of course, went back to the prior state which was ‘normal’ to them. Which is why it’s all best done under the supervision of a qualified professional who hopefully isn’t a fuckup.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    If you don't mind me asking, what were the signs you were addicted to something vs. dependent on something? I understand both are not mutually exclusive like in alcohol, for example. While I have been addicted to tobacco, I fail to see how a people who are addicted to tobacco/nicotine are different than me (a stimulant is a stimulant). Is the difference sheerly due to the harm tobacco causes? I do not feel like if I lost access to medication I would go and start pawning off stolen car radios to get my fix, but I feel like I would absolutely "hot-swap" to something else like caffeine (it's what I used prior to medication). I do not think I abuse the medication or anything -- no all nighters, no running out before my next prescription, etc.. I try to take one day a week off them, but that one day is sometimes uncomfortable. I would say my relationship to the medication is very "Flowers for Algernon" in a sense. I've almost lost access to medication due to all kinds of non-behavioral reasons like prescription issues, medication shortages, etc.. That always sends me into a spiral of anxiety and stress, but mainly because I feel like my life will fall apart quite quickly without the medication. However, at the same time, I wonder if I am being delusional because it's not like the medication makes me some kind of FAANG developer or anything. I'm still just your lowly below-average developer working at an undervalued and dead-end job for my local government. It's about as easy as it gets in terms of jobs, and I feel like I can barely keep my head above water.
    - lazide 3y ago
      [https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-science-addiction/drug-misuse-addiction https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-scie...] Did/do you compulsively seek caffeine despite significant adverse consequences to yourself and/or others? If someone really like having coffee, but can afford it and it doesn’t hurt their health - they aren’t addicted. If someone can’t hold down a job because they constantly drink coffee to the point they can’t work, then they’re addicted. Or, if they suffer from heart issues or whatever (I’m reaching, I know) due to all the coffee they drink, but can’t stop. Same. So the question is - does the Adderall or whatever help you function, actually? And in totality improve your life? If so, then you aren’t addicted. It’s rational. Seeking it, as long as it isn’t compulsive (aka it is based on a reasonable need and in proportion to the benefits/circumstances) is a reasonable thing to do. Like looking for Tylenol is if you sprained an ankle. The challenge is, Addicts (of all kinds!) are often incredibly delusional on this front, and Adderall et al IS addictive for folks without ADHD brain chemistry/ADHD dosage. It isn’t as bad as meth, but same issues. So someone who is an addict will often say yes, everything is fine to all those questions (and often mean it), but anyone looking in from the outside who knew them would often go whoa buddy that’s fucked, and they will have noticeable issues with functioning at some point. Others may be non-addictive personalities and be able to use the meds (and get high) but will not be addicts. They can take it or leave it. Many (well, early stage) addicts often tend to think they are these people. It’s part of the problem that makes them addicts. Some substances are very, very addictive and only a small portion of the population will not be a problem. Others, it requires a really special person to get addicted (in real terms) to it. Like coffee. Where interestingly, ADHD folks will often wonder constantly if they’re addicts while their life (and symptoms) noticeably improve - inside and out, and while they actively try to cut themselves off from the meds. Weird huh? If you’re really wondering, writing down in a daily journal can help if you do it consistently and review it after awhile. If your life circumstance is such it’s safe, taking a pause for a week or two on the meds while doing this can be very informative - but I wouldn’t recommend it without discussing with your Dr. first as it can be a real problem if there are real issues you need the medicine to help you address. I had a cousin who ended up homeless every time he went off his meds, for instance. ADHD memory is the worst.

lazide 3y ago

I have yet to meet someone with ADHD who enjoys the medication. In fact, most folks I know with ADHD are often trying to avoid taking them. It’s a pretty meaningful, objective difference actually between ‘normals’ and folks with ADHD. The neurochemistry is different for them, objectively and visibly so.

LegitShady 3y ago
The thing is, enjoy isn't even the issue. I have ADHD and I decided against taking medication for it because I found it addictive, and any time I changed the medication I had long periods of ups and downs that I intensely disliked. I've had a lot of people tell me I'm brilliant etc when working with me (not a humblebrag), and that's fine. Internally I absolutely know I'm operating at like 15/100 and I could be operating at 100% with medication. The issue isn't being smart or not, its about impulse control, the ability to focus and put in long hours, etc. I get so much less done than I could get done because I can't focus on the task as much as a normal person can, even if my decision making/research is good. so enjoy or not enjoy, if you want to be operating at the same level as your peers in high performance workplaces what you enjoy doesn't really enter into it. I just found for me the medication was too habit forming, and I'd rather be me at 15% forever and figure out what I can do with that than be at 100% and addicted to amphetamines. I completely understand the other decision, though.
- lazide 3y ago
  What do you mean by habit forming, exactly? Taking them should be a habit, no?
spidersenses 3y ago
Makes me glad to hear that I'm not the only one, who feels like this. I often think that I'm simply screwed for life: Without medication my life goes off the rails within days, with medication I'm at least barely able to hold it together, but I hate the nausea, hate the rebound (disorientation after the effect wears off), and the fact that I still don't remember to eat and rehydrate properly. I think I would need a life coach for a while, but as I'm surviving on a subsistence level, that's not an option.