3 ms·

Do adenovirus-vector Covid-19 vaccines have beneficial non-specific effects?

24 points by luu 3y ago

rossdavidh 3y ago
It would seem like, if we assume roughly equal health for adenovirus-vaccinated vs. mRNA-vaccinated prior to vaccination, we should be able to find out if this is a real affect or not by now. But, it would take some $$$ to do the research to find out.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  Were the patterns of distribution of the adenovirus and mRNA vaccines the same or did they go to different populations? That might complicate your study.
  - rossdavidh 3y ago
    Absolutely it would need to be looked at, but the fact that there were large numbers of both means you should be able to factor that out, as far as easy demographic variables like age and sex. However, and this is to your point, if (in any given country) one of those became available well before the other, then those people who were more eager to get it would all get one type, and people with pre-existing conditions might be expected to mostly be in that group.
prottog 3y ago
> It is unknown if COVID-19 vaccines have non-specific effects on overall survival > The relative mortality risk for mRNA vaccine vs. placebo was 1.03 (0.63–1.71) Yet the CDC is still recommending[0] to this day that everyone 6 years and older get an mRNA vaccine; even though this article is another piece of data saying that for anyone younger than, say, 40 with no significant comorbidities (and therefore very low risk of death from Covid), you are better off not. [0]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-t...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  Do you ever pause to wonder why if "you are better off not" getting the vaccine if you're under 40, the CDC still recommends that everyone in that age group gets it? Perhaps your confidence in "better off not" is incorrect? Seriously, spend a few minutes looking at the vaccine effectiveness tracker -- it's still an absolute no-brainer to get vaccinated: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccine-effectiveness https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccine-effectiven... The latest study publish in February shows this again, even with the more 'mild' strains circulating today: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7207a3-H.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7207a3-H.pdf
  - PraetorianGourd 3y ago
    Does COVID impact Europeans differently? The European equivalent to the CDC does not recommend additional boosters to those under 60[0]. I get this is a still novel virus but the divergence in guidance gives me pause, and I think that it is reasonable to step back and consider the bigger picture. [0] https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/ecdc-and-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/ecdc-and-ema-updat...
    - mikeyouse 3y ago
      The problem comes from people misunderstanding domain-specific issues.. the CDC and ECDC largely agree here! And neither of them echo anything resembling "you are better off not" getting the vaccine if you're under 40. It's a silly premise with absolutely no support. The ECDC guidance in that link is against second boosters which would be the 4th shot in the series. The CDC's guidance is that everyone has a single shot of the "updated" vaccine which has higher efficacy against omicron/later strains -- no matter how many vaccines they've previously had. Since Europe generally had higher vaccine uptake, their level of protection is already at a higher level than the US - so the differing recommendations seem to suit the respective populations pretty well.

24 points by luu 3y ago

It would seem like, if we assume roughly equal health for adenovirus-vaccinated vs. mRNA-vaccinated prior to vaccination, we should be able to find out if this is a real affect or not by now. But, it would take some $$$ to do the research to find out.

Tagbert 3y ago
Were the patterns of distribution of the adenovirus and mRNA vaccines the same or did they go to different populations? That might complicate your study.
- rossdavidh 3y ago
  Absolutely it would need to be looked at, but the fact that there were large numbers of both means you should be able to factor that out, as far as easy demographic variables like age and sex. However, and this is to your point, if (in any given country) one of those became available well before the other, then those people who were more eager to get it would all get one type, and people with pre-existing conditions might be expected to mostly be in that group.

prottog 3y ago

> It is unknown if COVID-19 vaccines have non-specific effects on overall survival > The relative mortality risk for mRNA vaccine vs. placebo was 1.03 (0.63–1.71) Yet the CDC is still recommending[0] to this day that everyone 6 years and older get an mRNA vaccine; even though this article is another piece of data saying that for anyone younger than, say, 40 with no significant comorbidities (and therefore very low risk of death from Covid), you are better off not. [0]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-t...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mikeyouse 3y ago
Do you ever pause to wonder why if "you are better off not" getting the vaccine if you're under 40, the CDC still recommends that everyone in that age group gets it? Perhaps your confidence in "better off not" is incorrect? Seriously, spend a few minutes looking at the vaccine effectiveness tracker -- it's still an absolute no-brainer to get vaccinated: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccine-effectiveness https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccine-effectiven... The latest study publish in February shows this again, even with the more 'mild' strains circulating today: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7207a3-H.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/pdfs/mm7207a3-H.pdf
- PraetorianGourd 3y ago
  Does COVID impact Europeans differently? The European equivalent to the CDC does not recommend additional boosters to those under 60[0]. I get this is a still novel virus but the divergence in guidance gives me pause, and I think that it is reasonable to step back and consider the bigger picture. [0] https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/ecdc-and-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/ecdc-and-ema-updat...
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    The problem comes from people misunderstanding domain-specific issues.. the CDC and ECDC largely agree here! And neither of them echo anything resembling "you are better off not" getting the vaccine if you're under 40. It's a silly premise with absolutely no support. The ECDC guidance in that link is against second boosters which would be the 4th shot in the series. The CDC's guidance is that everyone has a single shot of the "updated" vaccine which has higher efficacy against omicron/later strains -- no matter how many vaccines they've previously had. Since Europe generally had higher vaccine uptake, their level of protection is already at a higher level than the US - so the differing recommendations seem to suit the respective populations pretty well.