4 ms·

The cost of a basic economy car, from the start of the emissions & safety era to today, is about double in constant dollars.

danans 3y ago
What date are you using as the start of the emissions safety era? A base price 1995 Ford Contour was $13805–$16190 [1]. ABS was an upgrade option on that car. A 2023 Nissan Versa is $15730 [2] Even the cheapest cars from 1975 cost the equivalent of $17000 in today's dollars [3] 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143064/1995-10best-cars/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143064/1995-10best-... 2. https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/cheapest-new-cars/#:~:text=With%20a%20starting%20price%20below,creating%20a%20much%2Dimproved%20vehicle https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/ch.... 3. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-rt-comparison-the-nine-smallest-1975-economy-cars/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-rt-c...
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, decontented, cheaper car.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. A more relevant comparison would be the $3452 average new car price in 1970 against today, which is $27,704 in today's dollars. > That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, decontented, cheaper car. But you can get a car cheaper than the average new cars. In fact, “cars” proper are often less than the inflation adjusted amount from 1970; much of the reason the average new “car” price is higher is because it is more likely now to be an medium to large SUV than a car (sedan/coupe). Plenty of gas-powered sedans/coupes and small SUVs are less than $27.7K.
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty...the Dart, being "compact" only with respect to American cars of the period, is sufficiently large such that it doesn't register as a different category. As for modern small SUVs...you're still not going to get much change back from your $27K for a VW Taos, or Mazda CX-30, or Hyundai Santa Fe...how small are you willing to go for cheap?
      - danans 3y ago
        > I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty.. The cheapest car I can find from 1972 was $2131 or $15k in today's dollars [1]. That's pretty close to the cheapest car today, the Nissan Versa at $16K. There was no time when cars were significantly cheaper (inflation adjusted) than they are today. The Model T would have cost $27000 in today's dollars. And in almost every other year in car history, cars have on average been more expensive than that [2]. 1. https://blog.consumerguide.com/6-cheapest-american-cars-1972-auto/ https://blog.consumerguide.com/6-cheapest-american-cars-1972... 2. https://blog.cheapism.com/average-car-price-by-year/ https://blog.cheapism.com/average-car-price-by-year/
        linksnapzz 3y ago
        You could get a Honda 600 in 1970 for $1200. Again, that's pretty far into the "novelty" category, so I don't count it. I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.
        danans 3y ago
        > I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive. I don't understand what information you using to draw that conclusion. A 2023 Nissan Sentra ($20k) dimensions: 183″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H. The 1970 Dart ($21k in today's dollars) dimensions: 196" L x 72" W x 54" H. And a good chunk of that extra length is the huge engine in the Dart and the resulting long hood, so it actually probably had equivalent or less passenger space. The Nissan also has the full raft of safety/convenience features that you said should make it more expensive than the 1970 Dart: ABS, airbags, TPMS, AndroidAuto/Carplay, cruise control, collision detection, auto-braking for pedestrians, driver alertness monitoring, lane departure warning, etc etc etc. Yet it's still cheaper in real dollars than the Dart was.
  - danans 3y ago
    > I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. That's an invalid comparison, because 42k is the average new car transaction price (ATP), not the average MSRP, which is what your 1970 Dodge Dart is: an MSRP. The ATP is heavily weighted toward the fact that most new cars purchased are larger SUVs and higher end cars, and also lately influenced by heavy dealer markups due to the pandemic supply/demand imbalance for cars in general. That doesn't mean more economical cars the equivalent of the 1970 Dart aren't available today, and they are even cheaper than the Dart, i.e. the 2023 Nissan Versa at $17k. There are several other similarly cheap cars, just search "cheapest new cars 2023".
- linksnapzz 3y ago
  >A base price 1995 Ford Contour was $13805–$16190 [1]. ABS was an upgrade option on that car. True; and interesting that the Contour struggled in the market due to it being noticeably more expensive than the model it replaced! The thought was that being a much better car (to the tune of $6 billion in development costs), Ford could sell it on its merits, but as it turns out, buyers of small cars in the US are really, really price-sensitive.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > as it turns out, buyers of small cars in the US are really, really price-sensitive. Unless it has a particular popular feature people (at least some segment of the population) are willing to buy for (hybrids, when they were newer, for instance), yes, because Americans mostly don’t want small cars, they settle for small cars if the price is compelling.

danans 3y ago

What date are you using as the start of the emissions safety era? A base price 1995 Ford Contour was $13805–$16190 [1]. ABS was an upgrade option on that car. A 2023 Nissan Versa is $15730 [2] Even the cheapest cars from 1975 cost the equivalent of $17000 in today's dollars [3] 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143064/1995-10best-cars/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143064/1995-10best-... 2. https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/cheapest-new-cars/#:~:text=With%20a%20starting%20price%20below,creating%20a%20much%2Dimproved%20vehicle https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/ch.... 3. https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-rt-comparison-the-nine-smallest-1975-economy-cars/ https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-rt-c...

linksnapzz 3y ago
I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, decontented, cheaper car.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. A more relevant comparison would be the $3452 average new car price in 1970 against today, which is $27,704 in today's dollars. > That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, decontented, cheaper car. But you can get a car cheaper than the average new cars. In fact, “cars” proper are often less than the inflation adjusted amount from 1970; much of the reason the average new “car” price is higher is because it is more likely now to be an medium to large SUV than a car (sedan/coupe). Plenty of gas-powered sedans/coupes and small SUVs are less than $27.7K.
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty...the Dart, being "compact" only with respect to American cars of the period, is sufficiently large such that it doesn't register as a different category. As for modern small SUVs...you're still not going to get much change back from your $27K for a VW Taos, or Mazda CX-30, or Hyundai Santa Fe...how small are you willing to go for cheap?
    - danans 3y ago
      > I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty.. The cheapest car I can find from 1972 was $2131 or $15k in today's dollars [1]. That's pretty close to the cheapest car today, the Nissan Versa at $16K. There was no time when cars were significantly cheaper (inflation adjusted) than they are today. The Model T would have cost $27000 in today's dollars. And in almost every other year in car history, cars have on average been more expensive than that [2]. 1. https://blog.consumerguide.com/6-cheapest-american-cars-1972-auto/ https://blog.consumerguide.com/6-cheapest-american-cars-1972... 2. https://blog.cheapism.com/average-car-price-by-year/ https://blog.cheapism.com/average-car-price-by-year/
      - linksnapzz 3y ago
        You could get a Honda 600 in 1970 for $1200. Again, that's pretty far into the "novelty" category, so I don't count it. I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.
        danans 3y ago
        > I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive. I don't understand what information you using to draw that conclusion. A 2023 Nissan Sentra ($20k) dimensions: 183″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H. The 1970 Dart ($21k in today's dollars) dimensions: 196" L x 72" W x 54" H. And a good chunk of that extra length is the huge engine in the Dart and the resulting long hood, so it actually probably had equivalent or less passenger space. The Nissan also has the full raft of safety/convenience features that you said should make it more expensive than the 1970 Dart: ABS, airbags, TPMS, AndroidAuto/Carplay, cruise control, collision detection, auto-braking for pedestrians, driver alertness monitoring, lane departure warning, etc etc etc. Yet it's still cheaper in real dollars than the Dart was.
- danans 3y ago
  > I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. That's an invalid comparison, because 42k is the average new car transaction price (ATP), not the average MSRP, which is what your 1970 Dodge Dart is: an MSRP. The ATP is heavily weighted toward the fact that most new cars purchased are larger SUVs and higher end cars, and also lately influenced by heavy dealer markups due to the pandemic supply/demand imbalance for cars in general. That doesn't mean more economical cars the equivalent of the 1970 Dart aren't available today, and they are even cheaper than the Dart, i.e. the 2023 Nissan Versa at $17k. There are several other similarly cheap cars, just search "cheapest new cars 2023".
linksnapzz 3y ago
>A base price 1995 Ford Contour was $13805–$16190 [1]. ABS was an upgrade option on that car. True; and interesting that the Contour struggled in the market due to it being noticeably more expensive than the model it replaced! The thought was that being a much better car (to the tune of $6 billion in development costs), Ford could sell it on its merits, but as it turns out, buyers of small cars in the US are really, really price-sensitive.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > as it turns out, buyers of small cars in the US are really, really price-sensitive. Unless it has a particular popular feature people (at least some segment of the population) are willing to buy for (hybrids, when they were newer, for instance), yes, because Americans mostly don’t want small cars, they settle for small cars if the price is compelling.