> the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids... This is lazy. Of course society should be able to dictate how you raise your kid

> the twisted idea that I should be able to dictate how you raise your kids... This is lazy. Of course society should be able to dictate how you raise your kids to some extent. If somebody starts sleeping with their kids, you don't want society to react to that? Of course you do. So the question is how much society should be dictating how you raise your kids, which isn't an easy question. You have to balance the rights of the parents over the child, the rights of the child as an independent citizen, and, undeniably, the standards you want to set for society. We do this with tricks like graduating citizenship through arbitrary stages, maybe at 13 you can do X, at 18 you can do Y, at 21 you can do Z, and at 35 you can be President, for example. While you have limited citizenship, your parents can ignore many of your civil rights. While you have limited citizenship, the government can also ignore many of your civil rights. While you as a parent have a limited right to violate the civil rights of your children, the government has an obligation to step in if you overstep those bounds (you can't kill your kids.) Additionally, your rights as a parent to violate your children's civil rights are contingent on your obligations as set by the government (you have to feed, shelter, bathe, and educate them.) If you fail to do any of these things to an arbitrary standard, your parental rights will be taken away - which exposes the fact that parental rights are also granted by government. Without government, we don't talk about rights, we talk about abilities. Without government, you'd have the ability to do whatever you wanted with your child because you're larger, and could keep it in a cage. In society, what you can seen by society doing with your child without society intervening is limited, because society has set rules and has the ability to stop you. Finally, society sets arbitrary moral values. You can't sleep with your children even if they agree. A 22-year old can't sleep with a 15-year old. I suspect you agree with all of this, so why glibly pretend the questions are easy? We need to engage with the questions; have more basic principles (than "No one should be able to dictate...") that we can apply to the questions; and to figure out what requires consensus, what requires consent, and who has the right to give that consent.