5 ms·

What the hell is this cynicism? Seems completely inappropriate. Helion isn’t vaporware.

next_xibalba 3y ago
While you’re probably right about GP’s cynical tone, this announcement does seem fairly meaningless. Does Helion have a working prototype that can be reasonably moved into production? Or is that still years away?
- aetherson 3y ago
  Helion in 2014: We're about 3 years away from break-even energy. https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-VCDB-15246 https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-VCDB-15246
  - DennisP 3y ago
    They didn't get the funding they needed until 2021. https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/
- DennisP 3y ago
  Their sixth reactor achieved 100M degree temps, ran for 16 months under vacuum, did thousands of fusion shots, and demonstrated D-He3 fusion. Their seventh will start up in 2024, and is supposed to demonstrate net electricity from D-He3. Their eighth is supposed to be the commercial reactor. If they don't achieve that, they will have to pay penalties to Microsoft.
  - chasil 3y ago
    Divorced from both cynicism and hype, how does this compare to the recent advance in hohlraum laser fusion? https://www.llnl.gov/news/lawrence-livermore-national-laboratory-achieves-fusion-ignition https://www.llnl.gov/news/lawrence-livermore-national-labora...
    - gpm 3y ago
      It's a completely different approach to fusion. Lasers are really inefficient (poor at transforming electrical energy into light energy). They got more energy out than they put into the pellet, but nowhere near as much energy as they put into the lasers. Which means that turning that experiment into commercial fusion is... "not straightforward".
      - DennisP 3y ago
        NIF's lasers are only 1% efficient but they date back to the 1990s. Equivalent modern lasers are over 20% efficient. If they had modern lasers they'd have produced fusion power of about 20% of the input power. They seem to scale well, too. In their big shot they increased the laser power by 8% and output went up 230%. That said, compared to Helion it'd still be a lot harder to make a practical reactor with NIF's approach.
    - pfdietz 3y ago
      It's much more promising than the laser approach, IMO.
  - zardo 3y ago
    > Their sixth reactor achieved 100M degree temps, ran for 16 months under vacuum, did thousands of fusion shots, and demonstrated D-He3 fusion. I don't have anything near the expertise to evaluate Helions approach, but I know enough about fusion to say that just because you have a design that can achieve fusion conditions does not mean the approach could even theoretically lead to a power plant. e.g. electrostatic fusors
    - DennisP 3y ago
      True, but FRCs like Helion uses are thought to be workable.
- julienchastang 3y ago
  Also from the WSJ this AM: https://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-bets-that-fusion-power-is-closer-than-many-think-cb1b09dc https://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-bets-that-fusion-powe...
Algurnon 3y ago
In a world drowning in self-interested promotional 'puffing," calling this cynicism is in itself cynical. I prefer to see what your referring to as HN's community hype-filter.
dj_gitmo 3y ago
Even if it doesn't work, it's more noble to work on this than say, Juicero.
- switchbak 3y ago
  A century from now, Juicero will be honored for the wonderful stupidity that it was. That's an achievement in itself.
izend 3y ago
What about this detailed criticism of Helion's entire reactor and long term plans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw

While you’re probably right about GP’s cynical tone, this announcement does seem fairly meaningless. Does Helion have a working prototype that can be reasonably moved into production? Or is that still years away?

aetherson 3y ago
Helion in 2014: We're about 3 years away from break-even energy. https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-VCDB-15246 https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-VCDB-15246
- DennisP 3y ago
  They didn't get the funding they needed until 2021. https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/
DennisP 3y ago
Their sixth reactor achieved 100M degree temps, ran for 16 months under vacuum, did thousands of fusion shots, and demonstrated D-He3 fusion. Their seventh will start up in 2024, and is supposed to demonstrate net electricity from D-He3. Their eighth is supposed to be the commercial reactor. If they don't achieve that, they will have to pay penalties to Microsoft.
- chasil 3y ago
  Divorced from both cynicism and hype, how does this compare to the recent advance in hohlraum laser fusion? https://www.llnl.gov/news/lawrence-livermore-national-laboratory-achieves-fusion-ignition https://www.llnl.gov/news/lawrence-livermore-national-labora...
  - gpm 3y ago
    It's a completely different approach to fusion. Lasers are really inefficient (poor at transforming electrical energy into light energy). They got more energy out than they put into the pellet, but nowhere near as much energy as they put into the lasers. Which means that turning that experiment into commercial fusion is... "not straightforward".
    - DennisP 3y ago
      NIF's lasers are only 1% efficient but they date back to the 1990s. Equivalent modern lasers are over 20% efficient. If they had modern lasers they'd have produced fusion power of about 20% of the input power. They seem to scale well, too. In their big shot they increased the laser power by 8% and output went up 230%. That said, compared to Helion it'd still be a lot harder to make a practical reactor with NIF's approach.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    It's much more promising than the laser approach, IMO.
- zardo 3y ago
  > Their sixth reactor achieved 100M degree temps, ran for 16 months under vacuum, did thousands of fusion shots, and demonstrated D-He3 fusion. I don't have anything near the expertise to evaluate Helions approach, but I know enough about fusion to say that just because you have a design that can achieve fusion conditions does not mean the approach could even theoretically lead to a power plant. e.g. electrostatic fusors
  - DennisP 3y ago
    True, but FRCs like Helion uses are thought to be workable.
julienchastang 3y ago
Also from the WSJ this AM: https://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-bets-that-fusion-power-is-closer-than-many-think-cb1b09dc https://www.wsj.com/articles/microsoft-bets-that-fusion-powe...

Algurnon 3y ago

In a world drowning in self-interested promotional 'puffing," calling this cynicism is in itself cynical. I prefer to see what your referring to as HN's community hype-filter.

dj_gitmo 3y ago

Even if it doesn't work, it's more noble to work on this than say, Juicero.

switchbak 3y ago
A century from now, Juicero will be honored for the wonderful stupidity that it was. That's an achievement in itself.

izend 3y ago

What about this detailed criticism of Helion's entire reactor and long term plans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw