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How long are people in the US going to put up with this insanity? Some we have managed to create an extremely cruel, bureaucratic, expensive and unreliable syst

How long are people in the US going to put up with this insanity? Some we have managed to create an extremely cruel, bureaucratic, expensive and unreliable system that produces below average outcomes compared to other countries at exorbitant cost.

ecommerceguy 3y ago
[flagged]
- standardUser 3y ago
  How many and for what treatments? I want details and specific numbers. And how does that compare to the number of people who go to Eastern Europe and Latin American for medical care they can't afford in the US?
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    Drive into any cancer clinic in south Florida and count the number of Canadian vehicle plates (most of them are very nice cars so these are people with means). Single payer systems doesnt mean equal access. Quite the contrary actually. Don't most Canadians carry some form of private insurance? Why would they do that if healthcare is "free"?
    - kmoser 3y ago
      Drive to any supermarket and you'll see the same Canadian plates. They don't come all the way to the US for the food. South Florida is a vacation destination for Canadians; while a few may come for medical treatment, the vast majority come for the warm weather.
    - standardUser 3y ago
      If you're truly committed to defending insurance companies, so be it, but you should try to offering something other than anecdotes about some cars you see. Medical debt is a huge burden in this country, not only in terms of families struggling financially, but in terms of people avoiding or postponing needed treatments due to cost. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/100-million-adults-have-health-care-debt-and-some-owe-10000-or-more.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/100-million-adults-have-heal...
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      Excellent point kmoser, Canadians have to eat too!!
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - standardUser 3y ago
        You're offering nothing but false choices and strawmen. No data, no coherent argument, just a vague list of inefficiencies and concerns and some literal nonsense about license plates. Dozens of wealthy nations have healthcare systems that provide better outcomes with minimal debt. To not look at those systems for a better way to craft out own system would be idiotic. And what is the cryptic "Fifty Sovereign States" supposed to mean exactly?
      - ecommerceguy 3y ago
        Standarduser, can you answer my question as to who administers the plans? I'll wait patiently. Maybe that will shine light on my 50 statement for you. As for your other statements, where's your proof? I offered plenty of proof for my comments. edit: 1 hour, no answer from Standardtroll. The answer is private companies such as Centene and Humana. The common element in the answer is each State regulates Medicaid and Medicare. Federal Government reimburses States via the issuance of debt. Medicaid is Free or extremely low cost. So for all the Europoors, you can have your cake here too! https://www.centene.com/products-and-services/state-and-national-solutions/medicaid.html https://www.centene.com/products-and-services/state-and-nati... https://www.humana.com/medicaid/florida-medicaid https://www.humana.com/medicaid/florida-medicaid https://www.anthem.com/faqs/missouri/ https://www.anthem.com/faqs/missouri/ https://www.uhccommunityplan.com/mo/medicaid/mo-health-net https://www.uhccommunityplan.com/mo/medicaid/mo-health-net https://www.bcbsks.com/news-release/new-healthy-blue-collaboration-aims-offer-kansans-trusted-local-medicaid-solution-2024 https://www.bcbsks.com/news-release/new-healthy-blue-collabo... I can continue this all day folks.
- mikestew 3y ago
  Do you know how many people from Countries such as Canada Germany and the UK come to the US for treatment because they cant get it at home? No, I do not. Do you? I ask because every person, to a woman and a man, who says something along these lines has yet to even try and provide a number ("well...it's a lot."). I mean, I see folks on this very page mentioning some medical tourism to SE Asia. But I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen someone mention travel to the U. S. for medical treatment because the medical system in their shitty European socialist hellscape is lacking.
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    There is an entire industry that caters specifically for Canadians to come to the US for treatment. https://www.roswellpark.org/become-patient/international-patients/canadian-patients https://www.roswellpark.org/become-patient/international-pat... https://www.cancercenter.com/become-a-patient/international-patients https://www.cancercenter.com/become-a-patient/international-... https://www.browardhealth.org/pages/international-program https://www.browardhealth.org/pages/international-program https://moffitt.org/ https://moffitt.org/ I can keep providing examples, can you do the same?
    - standardUser 3y ago
      There's about 6 times as many hospitals in the US as in Canada, including some of the best research hospitals in the world, so naturally those with means would seek specialized treatment in many cases. But it's just one little piece of the puzzle. What about the many Americans who travel overseas for healthcare? https://www.insider.com/medical-tourism-americans-save-money-healthcare-2018-6 https://www.insider.com/medical-tourism-americans-save-money... https://www.healthcare-management-degree.net/faq/why-do-americans-travel-to-other-countries-for-medical-care/ https://www.healthcare-management-degree.net/faq/why-do-amer...
      - ecommerceguy 3y ago
        There you go about time you coughed up some links. Please be my guest go to a third world country for cheap care. Unfortunately your precious big government throw's caution to that wind! https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism Your second link, I'd love to see what access is restricted. Nearly all restrictions in the US are because of the FDA. Most medical tourism is for cosmetic surgery (which is elective and therefore not covered, I don't care what country or insurance plan you have, generally not covered). I don't need that, I'll stay in the States, thanks. https://www.maineplasticsurgery.com/blog/when-medical-tourism-turns-into-medical-disaster/ https://www.maineplasticsurgery.com/blog/when-medical-touris... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG2nM7ghXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG2nM7ghXo https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/5-ways-medical-tourism-can-go-wrong https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/5-ways-medical-t... https://abc7chicago.com/what-is-medical-tourism-in-mexico-cosmetic-surgery-mommy-makeover/12933992/ https://abc7chicago.com/what-is-medical-tourism-in-mexico-co...
- rqtwteye 3y ago
  "Do you know how many people from Countries such as Canada Germany and the UK come to the US for treatment because they cant get it at home?" Do you know how many people from the US can't go for treatments in the US because they can't afford it? Many. I am from Germany and I can tell you that I have never heard of anybody going to the US for treatment. Maybe some millionaires do this but certainly not the average citizen. Do you know how many people are in medical debt in the US vs Germany? Do you know which country has higher life expectancy?
zb1plus 3y ago
Agreed, I am planning on moving overseas because of how horrific our healthcare system is, I can go to Vietnam, Thailand, or any number "developing" countries and receive better care at their private clinics than in the USA. If the US wants to operate on a market system for healthcare, give me a better product. And with respect to experimental treatments, Singapore and Japan have advanced medical technology and treatments at a fraction of the price. The US system manages to have the worst of single payer and market systems while providing none of the benefits of either approach.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
If it was for the people to decide, we’d have something like Medicare for All a long time ago. But America is a wildly corrupt oligarchy, so the answer to your question is “forever.” If the George Floyd protests didn’t change anything anything meaningful about policing, I can’t imagine the level of unrest that would be needed to change something with so much money and back room dealing involved as the healthcare industry.
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  Oddly standarduser and mikestew aren't asking for details regarding your statement so I am. What kinds of services treatments and facilities did you recieve while visiting south Asia? >>"so much money and back room dealing involved as the healthcare industry." I'd like to see proof of this.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    I think you’re mixing up my comment with another one, but go look at things like the “speaking fee” racket. US politicians get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by healthcare industry companies to deliver the most banal speeches imaginable as a form of bribery.
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      Trust me I'd puke if I saw Hillary speaking at a Cigna conference.

ecommerceguy 3y ago

[flagged]

standardUser 3y ago
How many and for what treatments? I want details and specific numbers. And how does that compare to the number of people who go to Eastern Europe and Latin American for medical care they can't afford in the US?
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  Drive into any cancer clinic in south Florida and count the number of Canadian vehicle plates (most of them are very nice cars so these are people with means). Single payer systems doesnt mean equal access. Quite the contrary actually. Don't most Canadians carry some form of private insurance? Why would they do that if healthcare is "free"?
  - kmoser 3y ago
    Drive to any supermarket and you'll see the same Canadian plates. They don't come all the way to the US for the food. South Florida is a vacation destination for Canadians; while a few may come for medical treatment, the vast majority come for the warm weather.
  - standardUser 3y ago
    If you're truly committed to defending insurance companies, so be it, but you should try to offering something other than anecdotes about some cars you see. Medical debt is a huge burden in this country, not only in terms of families struggling financially, but in terms of people avoiding or postponing needed treatments due to cost. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/100-million-adults-have-health-care-debt-and-some-owe-10000-or-more.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/22/100-million-adults-have-heal...
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    Excellent point kmoser, Canadians have to eat too!!
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - standardUser 3y ago
      You're offering nothing but false choices and strawmen. No data, no coherent argument, just a vague list of inefficiencies and concerns and some literal nonsense about license plates. Dozens of wealthy nations have healthcare systems that provide better outcomes with minimal debt. To not look at those systems for a better way to craft out own system would be idiotic. And what is the cryptic "Fifty Sovereign States" supposed to mean exactly?
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      Standarduser, can you answer my question as to who administers the plans? I'll wait patiently. Maybe that will shine light on my 50 statement for you. As for your other statements, where's your proof? I offered plenty of proof for my comments. edit: 1 hour, no answer from Standardtroll. The answer is private companies such as Centene and Humana. The common element in the answer is each State regulates Medicaid and Medicare. Federal Government reimburses States via the issuance of debt. Medicaid is Free or extremely low cost. So for all the Europoors, you can have your cake here too! https://www.centene.com/products-and-services/state-and-national-solutions/medicaid.html https://www.centene.com/products-and-services/state-and-nati... https://www.humana.com/medicaid/florida-medicaid https://www.humana.com/medicaid/florida-medicaid https://www.anthem.com/faqs/missouri/ https://www.anthem.com/faqs/missouri/ https://www.uhccommunityplan.com/mo/medicaid/mo-health-net https://www.uhccommunityplan.com/mo/medicaid/mo-health-net https://www.bcbsks.com/news-release/new-healthy-blue-collaboration-aims-offer-kansans-trusted-local-medicaid-solution-2024 https://www.bcbsks.com/news-release/new-healthy-blue-collabo... I can continue this all day folks.
mikestew 3y ago
Do you know how many people from Countries such as Canada Germany and the UK come to the US for treatment because they cant get it at home? No, I do not. Do you? I ask because every person, to a woman and a man, who says something along these lines has yet to even try and provide a number ("well...it's a lot."). I mean, I see folks on this very page mentioning some medical tourism to SE Asia. But I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen someone mention travel to the U. S. for medical treatment because the medical system in their shitty European socialist hellscape is lacking.
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  There is an entire industry that caters specifically for Canadians to come to the US for treatment. https://www.roswellpark.org/become-patient/international-patients/canadian-patients https://www.roswellpark.org/become-patient/international-pat... https://www.cancercenter.com/become-a-patient/international-patients https://www.cancercenter.com/become-a-patient/international-... https://www.browardhealth.org/pages/international-program https://www.browardhealth.org/pages/international-program https://moffitt.org/ https://moffitt.org/ I can keep providing examples, can you do the same?
  - standardUser 3y ago
    There's about 6 times as many hospitals in the US as in Canada, including some of the best research hospitals in the world, so naturally those with means would seek specialized treatment in many cases. But it's just one little piece of the puzzle. What about the many Americans who travel overseas for healthcare? https://www.insider.com/medical-tourism-americans-save-money-healthcare-2018-6 https://www.insider.com/medical-tourism-americans-save-money... https://www.healthcare-management-degree.net/faq/why-do-americans-travel-to-other-countries-for-medical-care/ https://www.healthcare-management-degree.net/faq/why-do-amer...
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      There you go about time you coughed up some links. Please be my guest go to a third world country for cheap care. Unfortunately your precious big government throw's caution to that wind! https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism Your second link, I'd love to see what access is restricted. Nearly all restrictions in the US are because of the FDA. Most medical tourism is for cosmetic surgery (which is elective and therefore not covered, I don't care what country or insurance plan you have, generally not covered). I don't need that, I'll stay in the States, thanks. https://www.maineplasticsurgery.com/blog/when-medical-tourism-turns-into-medical-disaster/ https://www.maineplasticsurgery.com/blog/when-medical-touris... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG2nM7ghXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCG2nM7ghXo https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/5-ways-medical-tourism-can-go-wrong https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/5-ways-medical-t... https://abc7chicago.com/what-is-medical-tourism-in-mexico-cosmetic-surgery-mommy-makeover/12933992/ https://abc7chicago.com/what-is-medical-tourism-in-mexico-co...
rqtwteye 3y ago
"Do you know how many people from Countries such as Canada Germany and the UK come to the US for treatment because they cant get it at home?" Do you know how many people from the US can't go for treatments in the US because they can't afford it? Many. I am from Germany and I can tell you that I have never heard of anybody going to the US for treatment. Maybe some millionaires do this but certainly not the average citizen. Do you know how many people are in medical debt in the US vs Germany? Do you know which country has higher life expectancy?

zb1plus 3y ago

Agreed, I am planning on moving overseas because of how horrific our healthcare system is, I can go to Vietnam, Thailand, or any number "developing" countries and receive better care at their private clinics than in the USA. If the US wants to operate on a market system for healthcare, give me a better product. And with respect to experimental treatments, Singapore and Japan have advanced medical technology and treatments at a fraction of the price. The US system manages to have the worst of single payer and market systems while providing none of the benefits of either approach.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

If it was for the people to decide, we’d have something like Medicare for All a long time ago. But America is a wildly corrupt oligarchy, so the answer to your question is “forever.” If the George Floyd protests didn’t change anything anything meaningful about policing, I can’t imagine the level of unrest that would be needed to change something with so much money and back room dealing involved as the healthcare industry.

ecommerceguy 3y ago
Oddly standarduser and mikestew aren't asking for details regarding your statement so I am. What kinds of services treatments and facilities did you recieve while visiting south Asia? >>"so much money and back room dealing involved as the healthcare industry." I'd like to see proof of this.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  I think you’re mixing up my comment with another one, but go look at things like the “speaking fee” racket. US politicians get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by healthcare industry companies to deliver the most banal speeches imaginable as a form of bribery.
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    Trust me I'd puke if I saw Hillary speaking at a Cigna conference.