3 ms·

> Staying in any company right now is a negative return; you are wasting personal leverage. I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in the

> Staying in any company right now is a negative return; you are wasting personal leverage. I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in their workplace is their salary. Also, I get the feeling this person has never done anything outside of consumer app development with minimal stakeholder interaction. Overall I think it's great we can supercharge our learning and coding capabilities, but it would be naive to think knowledge and coding can let you do anything you want.

JohnFen 3y ago
> I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in their workplace is their salary. It's not the only benefit, but it's the only one that you can't get in some other way. I suspect that very few people -- even people who love their jobs -- would continue working in them if they weren't getting paid.
- renjimen 3y ago
  Well yeah, but we're unlikely to ever live in a world where there aren't paid jobs. Personally, I enjoy working with people. I may not make as much money as going solo but holistically my work life is improved by having colleagues. I think the same is true for most people. No person is an island.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > I think the same is true for most people. Sure, the same is true for me. But that's also a need that can be filled without working for someone.
    - theonething 3y ago
      Hard agree on this. I think what we're talking about here is having a sense of community or at least human to human interaction. I can think of so many ways to get that without the obligations that come from having a job. I generally enjoy my job but that is far from the main reason I do it. If money was not an issue, there are so many other things in life I would enjoy doing far more not to mention enjoying the general freedom that comes from not needing to work.
  - throwaway675309 3y ago
    There are plenty of ways of collaborating that don't involve a Paid job. "No person is an island". I hate quotes like this, things that have the veneer of truth without any actual corroborating data. I am a textbook introvert, I get no greater joy and contentment when spending a Saturday morning pursuing a personal project solo style.
- justsocrateasin 3y ago
  Well, obviously - you need to make money. So if you're not getting paid at your current job, many people can't afford to stay at their current job. If I had UBI or some kind of trust fund, I might stay at my current job. I really do enjoy it and think I'm better off with the structure it provides me.
mazzystar 3y ago
As the author of the article, I would say it has nothing to do with money. It has to do with your definition of living your life in a more meaningful way. By return I don't mean money, but your energy, time and potential. Also, I admire the group that optimized OS, but I'm just not used to teamwork. In my previous job, once I had come up with an idea of having a virtual pet, and they thought it was awesome, but when I said that you could define having any content, including a ball of lightning or even a nebula, no one seemed to know what I was talking about.
- nr2x 3y ago
  A) awesome username, b) I love my work and hired somebody who also loves the work. I told them explicitly up front this is a relationship based on the capitalist structure we live in and to keep an eye out for better pay but to give me a chance to make a counter. Nobody should be exploited and in my experience the easiest people to rip off are the passionate ones - which is why my advice to such people is always to get paid because somebody up the stack is siphoning off what should be yours.
- renjimen 3y ago
  Thanks for replying! Also, great username, great band. I totally agree there are different strokes for different folks, and some sectors are really well suited to solo work. I personally enjoy the security of working for a company and having a large set of diverse colleagues. I know many here on HN are more of the startup mindset, like yourself.
  - mazzystar 3y ago
    Yes, so I believe the target audience for this article is people who want to create and make a small difference in the world using only their own hands.
mdekkers 3y ago
> I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in their workplace is their salary. I enjoy clean water, food, shelter, and providing for my loved ones. I was not born rich, and I am not rich now. I am 53 and have worked for others as well as myself since I was 15. When I provide my expertise, experience, time, and skills to a 3rd party, I want to get fairly financially compensated for that. If I want camaraderie of some sort, I’ll join a relevant club or activities group, and will pay my dues. If I want to learn new skills, I will join some training course. I work for others for financial compensation, and financial compensation right now. I don’t want some vague promises down the road. You tell me what you need to get done, and I will tell you what it is going to cost you. We live in a society where the performance of work for others is compensated financially. Money makes the world go round, and allows us all to live. If you have any examples of additional benefits besides getting paid, please let me know. We work for money, which allows us to purchase the things we need and want on our own terms. If anybody convinced you that it is _not_ about money, you’ve been tricked.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in their workplace is their salary. It's not the only benefit, but it's the only one that you can't get in some other way. I suspect that very few people -- even people who love their jobs -- would continue working in them if they weren't getting paid.

renjimen 3y ago
Well yeah, but we're unlikely to ever live in a world where there aren't paid jobs. Personally, I enjoy working with people. I may not make as much money as going solo but holistically my work life is improved by having colleagues. I think the same is true for most people. No person is an island.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > I think the same is true for most people. Sure, the same is true for me. But that's also a need that can be filled without working for someone.
  - theonething 3y ago
    Hard agree on this. I think what we're talking about here is having a sense of community or at least human to human interaction. I can think of so many ways to get that without the obligations that come from having a job. I generally enjoy my job but that is far from the main reason I do it. If money was not an issue, there are so many other things in life I would enjoy doing far more not to mention enjoying the general freedom that comes from not needing to work.
- throwaway675309 3y ago
  There are plenty of ways of collaborating that don't involve a Paid job. "No person is an island". I hate quotes like this, things that have the veneer of truth without any actual corroborating data. I am a textbook introvert, I get no greater joy and contentment when spending a Saturday morning pursuing a personal project solo style.
justsocrateasin 3y ago
Well, obviously - you need to make money. So if you're not getting paid at your current job, many people can't afford to stay at their current job. If I had UBI or some kind of trust fund, I might stay at my current job. I really do enjoy it and think I'm better off with the structure it provides me.

mazzystar 3y ago

As the author of the article, I would say it has nothing to do with money. It has to do with your definition of living your life in a more meaningful way. By return I don't mean money, but your energy, time and potential. Also, I admire the group that optimized OS, but I'm just not used to teamwork. In my previous job, once I had come up with an idea of having a virtual pet, and they thought it was awesome, but when I said that you could define having any content, including a ball of lightning or even a nebula, no one seemed to know what I was talking about.

nr2x 3y ago
A) awesome username, b) I love my work and hired somebody who also loves the work. I told them explicitly up front this is a relationship based on the capitalist structure we live in and to keep an eye out for better pay but to give me a chance to make a counter. Nobody should be exploited and in my experience the easiest people to rip off are the passionate ones - which is why my advice to such people is always to get paid because somebody up the stack is siphoning off what should be yours.
renjimen 3y ago
Thanks for replying! Also, great username, great band. I totally agree there are different strokes for different folks, and some sectors are really well suited to solo work. I personally enjoy the security of working for a company and having a large set of diverse colleagues. I know many here on HN are more of the startup mindset, like yourself.
- mazzystar 3y ago
  Yes, so I believe the target audience for this article is people who want to create and make a small difference in the world using only their own hands.

mdekkers 3y ago

> I think it's a bit sad that the only benefit someone can see in their workplace is their salary. I enjoy clean water, food, shelter, and providing for my loved ones. I was not born rich, and I am not rich now. I am 53 and have worked for others as well as myself since I was 15. When I provide my expertise, experience, time, and skills to a 3rd party, I want to get fairly financially compensated for that. If I want camaraderie of some sort, I’ll join a relevant club or activities group, and will pay my dues. If I want to learn new skills, I will join some training course. I work for others for financial compensation, and financial compensation right now. I don’t want some vague promises down the road. You tell me what you need to get done, and I will tell you what it is going to cost you. We live in a society where the performance of work for others is compensated financially. Money makes the world go round, and allows us all to live. If you have any examples of additional benefits besides getting paid, please let me know. We work for money, which allows us to purchase the things we need and want on our own terms. If anybody convinced you that it is _not_ about money, you’ve been tricked.