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Counter anecdote, I had to go back to a quite complex project that a was developed in 1.5, 3 years ago, hundreds of dependencies. Upgrading to 1.9 RC2 required

Counter anecdote, I had to go back to a quite complex project that a was developed in 1.5, 3 years ago, hundreds of dependencies. Upgrading to 1.9 RC2 required changing a single dep (Light raps to the drop-in Graphs) and a single line (a library changed the return from a String to a StringView)

cookieperson 3y ago
You're incredibly lucky. Even minor version bumps have left me up shit creek in production with deadlines.
- freilanzer 3y ago
  Why do you update a programming language version in production with deadlines in the first place?
  - cookieperson 3y ago
    Because it has a new feature that's save the day(if it worked), fixes bugs in a janky patched Julia version, and production in the data science world looks different in research and development phases then it does for software. Production in r and d can simply be, boss wants to see the pros and cons next week with a successful run. Only with Julia have I run into these kinds of predicaments
    - dunefox 3y ago
      Other languages and libraries break as well so that's just bad practice.
      - cookieperson 3y ago
        Not as frequently. Having a broken release for a programming language is also bad practice.
        dunefox 3y ago
        How exactly are Julia releases broken?
        cookieperson 3y ago
        Look at the backlog of issues in their GitHub for backports. You'll see detailed lists of reported and fixed breakages. The lists aren't small... Now go on to imagine the ones people don't report and instead patch and fix them locally. We aren't even talking about Julia code fixes, often these involve the C that creates it and are a nightmare to diagnose. I can't reply to your post unfortunately the thread is too long.
        cjalmeida 3y ago
        This is the list of bugs fixed in the upcoming Matlab release: https://www.mathworks.com/support/faq/pr_bugs.html https://www.mathworks.com/support/faq/pr_bugs.html Just look at the first one: "In certain cases, pointAt method of satellite scenario Satellite class interprets Euler angle inputs in radians rather than degrees" Your expectations are completely unrealistic.
        cookieperson 3y ago
        Your entitled to your own beliefs, but Julia is more of a research project that's crowd sourcing phds to make products for them then it is a programming language. In other programming languages I've used past a 1.0 release (hint that's many) I've never seen the type of breaking bugs that occur. If Julia is this end all be all scientific computing language then I expect the CSV package not to be incompatible with Base after a minor version bump. Having to manually compile a patched fix to read csvs is not normal... Sorry, but that's never happened to me in R, python, Go, Rust, C++, Java, Scala, JavaScript, etc. If that's an unrealistic expectation then maybe Julia is just holding an incredibly low bar compared to it's competitors.
        freilanzer 3y ago
        Other languages don't have that? CPython has almost 7k issues open atm. GHC has 5k. Again, FUD.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- cjalmeida 3y ago
  Julia core is backwards compatible all the way to 1.0, libs not so much. Now, something as fundamental as numpy dropped support for Python<3.6 in a minor release: https://numpy.org/devdocs/release/1.19.0-notes.html https://numpy.org/devdocs/release/1.19.0-notes.html And I've been bitten by relevant python libs breaking stuff even in patch releases. It happens and it's far from particular to Julia. I just make sure to test stuff property before going to production.
  - cookieperson 3y ago
    Pythons breakages have also been security centric. I'm not a big fan of it, but yea Julia isn't 30 yrs old and it's done things like this every minor release without anouncement. To be clear though I'm not talking about a conscious researchable decision to drop support after 5 years. I'm talking about bugs that pop up over night. Anyway has Julia ever been audited for security? Most of the netstack was written by a single person... Makes ya wonder...

cookieperson 3y ago

You're incredibly lucky. Even minor version bumps have left me up shit creek in production with deadlines.

freilanzer 3y ago
Why do you update a programming language version in production with deadlines in the first place?
- cookieperson 3y ago
  Because it has a new feature that's save the day(if it worked), fixes bugs in a janky patched Julia version, and production in the data science world looks different in research and development phases then it does for software. Production in r and d can simply be, boss wants to see the pros and cons next week with a successful run. Only with Julia have I run into these kinds of predicaments
  - dunefox 3y ago
    Other languages and libraries break as well so that's just bad practice.
    - cookieperson 3y ago
      Not as frequently. Having a broken release for a programming language is also bad practice.
      - dunefox 3y ago
        How exactly are Julia releases broken?
      - cookieperson 3y ago
        Look at the backlog of issues in their GitHub for backports. You'll see detailed lists of reported and fixed breakages. The lists aren't small... Now go on to imagine the ones people don't report and instead patch and fix them locally. We aren't even talking about Julia code fixes, often these involve the C that creates it and are a nightmare to diagnose. I can't reply to your post unfortunately the thread is too long.
        cjalmeida 3y ago
        This is the list of bugs fixed in the upcoming Matlab release: https://www.mathworks.com/support/faq/pr_bugs.html https://www.mathworks.com/support/faq/pr_bugs.html Just look at the first one: "In certain cases, pointAt method of satellite scenario Satellite class interprets Euler angle inputs in radians rather than degrees" Your expectations are completely unrealistic.
        cookieperson 3y ago
        Your entitled to your own beliefs, but Julia is more of a research project that's crowd sourcing phds to make products for them then it is a programming language. In other programming languages I've used past a 1.0 release (hint that's many) I've never seen the type of breaking bugs that occur. If Julia is this end all be all scientific computing language then I expect the CSV package not to be incompatible with Base after a minor version bump. Having to manually compile a patched fix to read csvs is not normal... Sorry, but that's never happened to me in R, python, Go, Rust, C++, Java, Scala, JavaScript, etc. If that's an unrealistic expectation then maybe Julia is just holding an incredibly low bar compared to it's competitors.
        freilanzer 3y ago
        Other languages don't have that? CPython has almost 7k issues open atm. GHC has 5k. Again, FUD.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
cjalmeida 3y ago
Julia core is backwards compatible all the way to 1.0, libs not so much. Now, something as fundamental as numpy dropped support for Python<3.6 in a minor release: https://numpy.org/devdocs/release/1.19.0-notes.html https://numpy.org/devdocs/release/1.19.0-notes.html And I've been bitten by relevant python libs breaking stuff even in patch releases. It happens and it's far from particular to Julia. I just make sure to test stuff property before going to production.
- cookieperson 3y ago
  Pythons breakages have also been security centric. I'm not a big fan of it, but yea Julia isn't 30 yrs old and it's done things like this every minor release without anouncement. To be clear though I'm not talking about a conscious researchable decision to drop support after 5 years. I'm talking about bugs that pop up over night. Anyway has Julia ever been audited for security? Most of the netstack was written by a single person... Makes ya wonder...