11 ms·

Researchers craft a fully edible battery

60 points by GlumWoodpecker 3y ago

kraemate 3y ago
Its called a fruit?
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  You can use a potato or an orange as a battery (just stick some wires in). It's not rechargable though.
  - ars 3y ago
    This is a common misconception, the battery is NOT the fruit, it's the wires you stick into it.
  - bitL 3y ago
    Banana nuclear reactor? https://jabde.com/2022/11/06/banana-fission-reactor/ https://jabde.com/2022/11/06/banana-fission-reactor/
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    > It's not rechargable though. Renewable though.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      It is not. The organic material isn't the part that gets used up, but rather the electrodes. The energy does not really come from the potato, just the chemistry environment. If you take the electrodes out and put them in a new potato, I don't think that will get you a fresh battery.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        Oh, so the fruit is just being used as an electrolyte, not as actual energy storage?
hoffspot 3y ago
But is it delicious? Until we get dessert batteries, meh.
bitL 3y ago
Potato batteries are back? Quercetin would be onion/apple flavor, riboflavin will be liver/egg flavor. Activated charcoal will prevent anything from being absorbed in the gut.
gjulianm 3y ago
My first question was "but why?" and apparently it has more applications than one would think at first, as it says in the article: edible batteries in toys for kids would eliminate toxicity risk and supporting electronics that go inside our body (they are working in edible transistors). I also wanted to highlight this hilarious phrase in the article: > While all of these components are nontoxic and edible, the researchers clarify that a user is not supposed to eat the battery on purpose, which would obviate the whole point of making it rechargeable. "Please don't buy our batteries for eating, eat a banana or something"
- pulse7 3y ago
  Now we need edible electronics and webcams, so you can eat a webcam - make photos inside, send them out of body - and... digest it...
  - rft 3y ago
    We have edible, but not digestible wireless cameras already. Prepare for a slightly different noise when using the bathroom in the next few days/hours though. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscopy/about/pac-20393366 https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscop...
    - akiselev 3y ago
      That’s genius. Now I want to get one just out of curiosity. Looking at the cost though, I think I’m going to have to pass this one
      - tpoacher 3y ago
        ... just to clarify, when you say pass ...
        akiselev 3y ago
        I chose my words carefully ;-)
FredPret 3y ago
Now I can finally have a battery-powered horse cart
iambateman 3y ago
I’ll let y’all try it and let me know how it is!
detrites 3y ago
Link to PDF of the paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/adma.202211400 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/adma.2... Page 7 has a photo of the battery, powering an LED.
rft 3y ago
Very quick math says this is much weaker than a potato battery, which is a fun comparison. [1] puts the capacity of a potato around 0.1 Wh, quite impressive. Using the numbers from TFA I get a capacity of 5.2 µWh [2]. For reference an AA battery is 4.275 Wh. A spent potato battery is apparently not edible, but 5.2 µWh does not provide much power. Also a potato battery is not rechargeable, while this one is, if you do not eat it of course. [1] https://sciencing.com/make-potato-battery-6537882.html https://sciencing.com/make-potato-battery-6537882.html - 0.5V * 10mA * 20 h [2] 0.65V * 48 µA * 1/6 h (you get a 10 min runtime at the wattage) P.S. I know this should be calculated in joules, but battery capacity is always listed in (k)Wh or mAh, so I kept to these units edit: correct potato capacity calculation, was off by a factor of 10
- moolcool 3y ago
  > A spent potato battery is apparently not edible Wait, really? What happens if you eat a used potato battery?
  - jovial_cavalier 3y ago
    My guess is that it's full of a bunch of copper ions that are toxic
    - m348e912 3y ago
      I went down the rabbit hole on this one and found this discussion from thenakedscientists.com: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=47440.0 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=474... --- Is a potato used as a battery still edible? This thread seems to be essentially all wrong. "What does this do to its edibility once the energy has been all used up? " The energy used to run the clock doesn't came from the potato. It comes from the coal used to smelt the zinc from its ore. "Not sure how it will taste, but it will reduce the ascorbic acid content." Probably true, but not a big deal "Potatoes have a higher content of vitamin C than even oranges do." Not true http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources "You will also get some metal ions in your potato. Copper ions, zinc ions, etc, depending on what your electrodes are." Not quite true, there's no "probably" about it. The energy is released by the conversion of metallic zinc to zinc ions. "Perhaps some organometallic compounds." I doubt it; most organozinc compounds are not stable in the presence of air or water. "Some of the metal ions may in fact be vitamins" No, they may be minerals which the body uses, but they can't be vitamins since ther are not organic compounds. Nobody has mentioned the fact that spuds exposed to light generate toxic chemicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine#Solanine_in_potatoes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine#Solanine_in_potatoes The simple answer is no. Throw the used potato away. ---- Apparently potatoes are not natural batteries, the conversion of zinc to zinc oxide produces energy. ---- They dig zinc oxide out of the ground The add coal and heat it to get zinc 2 ZnO + C --> 2 Zn + CO2 If they just burned that coal they would get energy. This way some of that energy is "stored" by making metallic zinc. When the zinc is oxidised that energy is released.
Aardwolf 3y ago
Now make edible LED's and other components and we can have some pretty fancy blinking light food!
ConfusedDog 3y ago
Now we need to make marshmallow vehicles, breathable water pool, warm fire that won't burn, antigravity flooring in case children might fall down.
- valine 3y ago
  Child mortality has fallen almost every year since the 1800s. That doesn’t happen without advancements like this. Are you really advocating for higher child mortality?
  - ConfusedDog 3y ago
    Great. Now if I don't support these, I'm advocating for child suffering. Flawless logic there.
    - valine 3y ago
      I mean yes? They made safe batteries for children toys. It’s an objectively good thing, stop being so miserable.
      - ConfusedDog 3y ago
        Not if they are terrible batteries in term of energy storage and cost. It's not objectively a good thing and I don't have to agree with you or this product to be not miserable.
- boredumb 3y ago
  Joking aside, a warm fire that won't burn and a breathable water pool would be endlessly entertaining.
meitros 3y ago
It would probably be a billion times less powerful than a silicon chip (and only last a few days), but I wonder if one could make a potato into a cpu.
westurner 3y ago
"Researchers find major storage capacity in metal-free aqueous batteries" https://www.inceptivemind.com/researchers-finds-major-storage-capacity-metal-free-aqueous-batteries/30164/ https://www.inceptivemind.com/researchers-finds-major-storag... : "The role of the electrolyte in non-conjugated radical polymers for metal-free aqueous energy storage electrodes." (2023) DOI: 10.1038/s41563-023-01518-z "A sustainable battery with a biodegradable electrolyte made from crab shells" (2022) https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/09/220901135827.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/09/220901135827.h... : "A sustainable chitosan-zinc electrolyte for high-rate zinc-metal batteries" (2022) http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.matt.2022.07.015 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.matt.2022.07.015 Chitosan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan : > Chitosan /ˈkaɪtəsæn/ is a linear polysaccharide composed of randomly distributed β-(1→4)-linked D-glucosamine (deacetylated unit) and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine (acetylated unit). It is made by treating the chitin shells of shrimp and other crustaceans with an alkaline substance, such as sodium hydroxide. Is there a sustainable way to produce Chitosan, which is an electrolyte? https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/ https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/ Ctrl-F "anode" : > Here's a discussion about the lower costs of hemp supercapacitors as compared with graphene super capacitors: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16814022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16814022
- westurner 3y ago
  "Why Salt Water may be the Future of Batteries" https://youtu.be/vm2hNNA4lvM https://youtu.be/vm2hNNA4lvM ($5/kwh, energy density, desalinization too, graphene production too) Flow battery > Other types > Membraneless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery#Other_types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery#Other_types
napierzaza 3y ago
[dead]
svilen_dobrev 3y ago
wasn't there a drinkable (alcohol~) battery some time ago?
lachlan_gray 3y ago
Maybe useful for mouth gadgets like this thing https://www.augmental.tech/ https://www.augmental.tech/

kraemate 3y ago

Its called a fruit?

jillesvangurp 3y ago
You can use a potato or an orange as a battery (just stick some wires in). It's not rechargable though.
- ars 3y ago
  This is a common misconception, the battery is NOT the fruit, it's the wires you stick into it.
- bitL 3y ago
  Banana nuclear reactor? https://jabde.com/2022/11/06/banana-fission-reactor/ https://jabde.com/2022/11/06/banana-fission-reactor/
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > It's not rechargable though. Renewable though.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    It is not. The organic material isn't the part that gets used up, but rather the electrodes. The energy does not really come from the potato, just the chemistry environment. If you take the electrodes out and put them in a new potato, I don't think that will get you a fresh battery.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      Oh, so the fruit is just being used as an electrolyte, not as actual energy storage?

hoffspot 3y ago

But is it delicious? Until we get dessert batteries, meh.

bitL 3y ago

Potato batteries are back? Quercetin would be onion/apple flavor, riboflavin will be liver/egg flavor. Activated charcoal will prevent anything from being absorbed in the gut.

gjulianm 3y ago

My first question was "but why?" and apparently it has more applications than one would think at first, as it says in the article: edible batteries in toys for kids would eliminate toxicity risk and supporting electronics that go inside our body (they are working in edible transistors). I also wanted to highlight this hilarious phrase in the article: > While all of these components are nontoxic and edible, the researchers clarify that a user is not supposed to eat the battery on purpose, which would obviate the whole point of making it rechargeable. "Please don't buy our batteries for eating, eat a banana or something"

pulse7 3y ago
Now we need edible electronics and webcams, so you can eat a webcam - make photos inside, send them out of body - and... digest it...
- rft 3y ago
  We have edible, but not digestible wireless cameras already. Prepare for a slightly different noise when using the bathroom in the next few days/hours though. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscopy/about/pac-20393366 https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/capsule-endoscop...
  - akiselev 3y ago
    That’s genius. Now I want to get one just out of curiosity. Looking at the cost though, I think I’m going to have to pass this one
    - tpoacher 3y ago
      ... just to clarify, when you say pass ...
      - akiselev 3y ago
        I chose my words carefully ;-)

FredPret 3y ago

Now I can finally have a battery-powered horse cart

iambateman 3y ago

I’ll let y’all try it and let me know how it is!

detrites 3y ago

Link to PDF of the paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/adma.202211400 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/adma.2... Page 7 has a photo of the battery, powering an LED.

rft 3y ago

Very quick math says this is much weaker than a potato battery, which is a fun comparison. [1] puts the capacity of a potato around 0.1 Wh, quite impressive. Using the numbers from TFA I get a capacity of 5.2 µWh [2]. For reference an AA battery is 4.275 Wh. A spent potato battery is apparently not edible, but 5.2 µWh does not provide much power. Also a potato battery is not rechargeable, while this one is, if you do not eat it of course. [1] https://sciencing.com/make-potato-battery-6537882.html https://sciencing.com/make-potato-battery-6537882.html - 0.5V * 10mA * 20 h [2] 0.65V * 48 µA * 1/6 h (you get a 10 min runtime at the wattage) P.S. I know this should be calculated in joules, but battery capacity is always listed in (k)Wh or mAh, so I kept to these units edit: correct potato capacity calculation, was off by a factor of 10

moolcool 3y ago
> A spent potato battery is apparently not edible Wait, really? What happens if you eat a used potato battery?
- jovial_cavalier 3y ago
  My guess is that it's full of a bunch of copper ions that are toxic
  - m348e912 3y ago
    I went down the rabbit hole on this one and found this discussion from thenakedscientists.com: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=47440.0 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=474... --- Is a potato used as a battery still edible? This thread seems to be essentially all wrong. "What does this do to its edibility once the energy has been all used up? " The energy used to run the clock doesn't came from the potato. It comes from the coal used to smelt the zinc from its ore. "Not sure how it will taste, but it will reduce the ascorbic acid content." Probably true, but not a big deal "Potatoes have a higher content of vitamin C than even oranges do." Not true http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources "You will also get some metal ions in your potato. Copper ions, zinc ions, etc, depending on what your electrodes are." Not quite true, there's no "probably" about it. The energy is released by the conversion of metallic zinc to zinc ions. "Perhaps some organometallic compounds." I doubt it; most organozinc compounds are not stable in the presence of air or water. "Some of the metal ions may in fact be vitamins" No, they may be minerals which the body uses, but they can't be vitamins since ther are not organic compounds. Nobody has mentioned the fact that spuds exposed to light generate toxic chemicals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine#Solanine_in_potatoes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine#Solanine_in_potatoes The simple answer is no. Throw the used potato away. ---- Apparently potatoes are not natural batteries, the conversion of zinc to zinc oxide produces energy. ---- They dig zinc oxide out of the ground The add coal and heat it to get zinc 2 ZnO + C --> 2 Zn + CO2 If they just burned that coal they would get energy. This way some of that energy is "stored" by making metallic zinc. When the zinc is oxidised that energy is released.

Aardwolf 3y ago

Now make edible LED's and other components and we can have some pretty fancy blinking light food!

ConfusedDog 3y ago

Now we need to make marshmallow vehicles, breathable water pool, warm fire that won't burn, antigravity flooring in case children might fall down.

valine 3y ago
Child mortality has fallen almost every year since the 1800s. That doesn’t happen without advancements like this. Are you really advocating for higher child mortality?
- ConfusedDog 3y ago
  Great. Now if I don't support these, I'm advocating for child suffering. Flawless logic there.
  - valine 3y ago
    I mean yes? They made safe batteries for children toys. It’s an objectively good thing, stop being so miserable.
    - ConfusedDog 3y ago
      Not if they are terrible batteries in term of energy storage and cost. It's not objectively a good thing and I don't have to agree with you or this product to be not miserable.
boredumb 3y ago
Joking aside, a warm fire that won't burn and a breathable water pool would be endlessly entertaining.

meitros 3y ago

It would probably be a billion times less powerful than a silicon chip (and only last a few days), but I wonder if one could make a potato into a cpu.

westurner 3y ago

"Researchers find major storage capacity in metal-free aqueous batteries" https://www.inceptivemind.com/researchers-finds-major-storage-capacity-metal-free-aqueous-batteries/30164/ https://www.inceptivemind.com/researchers-finds-major-storag... : "The role of the electrolyte in non-conjugated radical polymers for metal-free aqueous energy storage electrodes." (2023) DOI: 10.1038/s41563-023-01518-z "A sustainable battery with a biodegradable electrolyte made from crab shells" (2022) https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/09/220901135827.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/09/220901135827.h... : "A sustainable chitosan-zinc electrolyte for high-rate zinc-metal batteries" (2022) http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.matt.2022.07.015 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.matt.2022.07.015 Chitosan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitosan : > Chitosan /ˈkaɪtəsæn/ is a linear polysaccharide composed of randomly distributed β-(1→4)-linked D-glucosamine (deacetylated unit) and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine (acetylated unit). It is made by treating the chitin shells of shrimp and other crustaceans with an alkaline substance, such as sodium hydroxide. Is there a sustainable way to produce Chitosan, which is an electrolyte? https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/ https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/ Ctrl-F "anode" : > Here's a discussion about the lower costs of hemp supercapacitors as compared with graphene super capacitors: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16814022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16814022

westurner 3y ago
"Why Salt Water may be the Future of Batteries" https://youtu.be/vm2hNNA4lvM https://youtu.be/vm2hNNA4lvM ($5/kwh, energy density, desalinization too, graphene production too) Flow battery > Other types > Membraneless https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery#Other_types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery#Other_types

napierzaza 3y ago

[dead]

svilen_dobrev 3y ago

wasn't there a drinkable (alcohol~) battery some time ago?

lachlan_gray 3y ago

Maybe useful for mouth gadgets like this thing https://www.augmental.tech/ https://www.augmental.tech/