>This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments, leading to a whole bunch of o

>This is another thing that pisses me off about permaculture people, they encourage inefficient use of land in urban environments, leading to a whole bunch of other problems, including higher land value, more need for cars, and MORE environmentally and economically draining suburbs. I don't want a community garden in my most important economic areas, I want housing and workplaces. I dare say the vast vast majority of land affected by such influences would probably be lawn or the like otherwise. Suburbia in the vast majority of the western world isn't exactly rife with small scale subsistence farming and the places where these practices have contributed a meaningful amount are relatively densely populated places in Europe where it used to be the norm and plots were divided accordingly in an inflexible way before the scale of modern agriculture being common. When it comes to market gardening for income you need more even if less. It is extremely rare for it to make sense in an urban environment where denser construction is an option not blocked by other factors. In many places you can get many manyfold the acreage by selling off and going outside of such urban environments.