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>Most studies I've seen suggest that the larger the farming operation, the more efficiently it's able to use resources. Yes, this is true for modern agricultur
by CapstanRoller 3y ago
>Most studies I've seen suggest that the larger the farming operation, the more efficiently it's able to use resources.
Yes, this is true for modern agriculture, because it's an industrial process that benefits from economies of scale. Unfortunately that process is unsustainable and will ultimately deplete our fertilizer resources while damaging the environment.
>Someone working a median wage job will be able to buy more food in the time it takes you to maintain your garden.
Permaculture isn't about returning to peasantry. Permaculture is about integrating food production into society while expending minimal effort (less effort than even mowing a lawn).
>You won't be able to get free fertilizer from people that prune trees because everyone will want it
Fertilizer doesn't need to come from pruned trees. In fact, wood chips alone don't really make for good compost.
Properly designed permaculture systems coupled with local programs such as neighborhood composting and an understanding of the local ecosystem can produce a huge amount of food with very little effort or input.
>Many of them work very little and pay nothing in taxes, use medicare, and are still well off because a lot of their labor is untaxable.
OK, and? Maybe the answer is to reform how we structure society and taxes instead of claiming that low-impact sustainable lifestyles are somehow a form of "theft".
You could make the same argument about how people who refuse to buy a new iPhone every year are "stealing" resources because they don't contribute enough to an economy structured around overproduction and waste. It's absurd.
- lukas099 3y agoTo be fair, the person you're responding to didn't use the word "theft" which you're quoting. That came from someone who replied to them.
- zeroCalories 3y agoThe point isn't about wood chips in particular. I'm saying that the waste you're diverting won't be enough to sustain you if everyone is trying to get it, and ideally there wouldn't be any waste to begin with. That means we will return to some form of industrial process, and the bigger the better. Of course, we will want to encourage people to farm sustainability through policy, which will be far easier if there are a few centralized operations instead of a large number of small distributed operations. >OK, and? Maybe the answer is to reform how we structure society and taxes instead of claiming that low-impact sustainable lifestyles are somehow a form of "theft You're avoiding taxes while depending heavily on tax payer provided services. Not scalable for a modern society. > You could make the same argument about how people who refuse to buy a new iPhone every year are "stealing" resources because they don't contribute enough to an economy structured around overproduction and waste. It's absurd. No? It's not about contributing to an economy, it's about contributing your fair share for the public good. A better comparison might be crypto people that want to avoid taxes by doing all transactions under the table.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago>the waste you're diverting won't be enough to sustain you if everyone is trying to get it, and ideally there wouldn't be any waste to begin with There's always going to be food waste in the sense that we cannot eat every part of every vegetable. And, again, there are many other ways to generate things like compost and fertilizer without using waste — cover crops, aquaponics, etc. >avoiding taxes I "avoid" taxes by keeping old electronics alive, repairing things I find, and helping friends do the same. Is that wrong, by your ethical framework? This fascination with taxes is utterly bizarre. >It's not about contributing to an economy, it's about contributing your fair share for the public good. Large parts of the economy don't operate for the public good. Giving money to Monsanto, for example, is actively detrimental for the public good.
- zeroCalories 3y ago> There's always going to be food waste in the sense that we cannot eat every part of every vegetable. And, again, there are many other ways to generate things like compost and fertilizer without using waste — cover crops, aquaponics, etc. But you can't escape entropy in a closed loop system, and anything you can do a large scale food factory can do better. > I "avoid" taxes by keeping old electronics alive, repairing things I find, and helping friends do the same. Is that wrong, by your ethical framework? This fascination with taxes is utterly bizarre. No, I'm not advocating for waste to help the economy. That's a classic fallacy in economics, and I don't feel the need to expand further. I just want your work taxed. > Large parts of the economy don't operate for the public good. Giving money to Monsanto, for example, is actively detrimental for the public good. You're missing the point again. I don't care if you buy a new iphone or not. If you're working, and especially if you're producing a lot of value, I want you taxed. We could have the tax man come take 30% of your yield and distribute it to the poor, for example.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago[flagged]
- flippinburgers 3y agoNit: there is definitely more effort involved in gardening than in mowing a lawn.
- CapstanRoller 3y agoNope, not with a well-designed permaculture setup
- flippinburgers 3y agoLol ok we will have to agree to disagree about what makes a good garden. A well kept garden requires daily work, planning, determining crop rotation, and many other things that go way way beyond mowing a lawn.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago"Permaculture" isn't a synonym for "gardening"
- flippinburgers 3y agoTrue. It is vastly larger than gardening which in and of itself is rather more complex than mowing a lawn.